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After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

nytimes.com

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Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#211

Post by eastendguy »

woolvalley wrote: post #168
nosickdays wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a rather salient point. In the Netherlands, if I needed (in consultation with my doctor, of course) to stay out of work for a year to recuperate from illness or injury, I can do that and continue to receive my full salary. The second year would be at 70% salary. My job would await my return - only after 2 years would I be separated from my employer and have access to other long-term disability benefits. In th…

Who is paying for that 1 years salary?

In Germany, smaller companies get reimbursed by the health insurance for the salary they pay their employee during the sick leave.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#212

Post by danieltillett »

eropple wrote: post #206
danieltillett wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Codeine at the dose available over the counter is not very addictive. On top of this the pharmacists record your details so that anyone addicted is picked up and helped. As far as I can determine there has not been a problem with OTC codeine in Australia. As for why to not make it prescription only is we have universal healthcare in Australia. Shifting low dose codeine to prescription only will cause a massive increa…

If it's sufficiently low dose and it's tracked at a level that can detect and alert about potential abuse, that makes a lot of sense to me; thank you for the (much better) explanation.

Basically like lots of things in Australia we are getting caught up in the US hysteria about opioid addiction.

Yes opioids are powerful and potentially dangerous drugs, but used wisely they are very useful and effective. If there is a problem then the solution is to solve the problem, not just ban everything because there might be a problem.

On the topic of the US opioid addiction the way it has been handled is appalling. Getting millions hooked on powerful prescription opioids and then cutting them off cold turkey with effectively zero help so they end turning to really dangerous drugs like fentanyl is criminal.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#213

Post by akira2501 »

dpark wrote: post #201
trhway wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A similar reasoning of a (military) Russian dentist refusing to apply even local anesthetic that a friend seen once - "I prefer to not lose contact with the patient"

My dentist in California said he had several patients from Eastern Europe and Russia who had dental treatment like this, and their teeth were all mangled from treatment without anesthesia. He had done numerous re-drilling’s and re-fillings and root canals on these patients to deal with decay in teeth that had already been treated in their home countries. They had decay underneath fillings because the original treatme…

> They had decay underneath fillings because the original treatment had essentially only gone as deep as the patient could stand.

In the middle of a root-canal my anesthetic completely wore off. I was able to feel the nerve root in my tooth being twisted up into a metal file and snapped out, along with all the canal filing and packing that happens afterwards. White-hot all-encompassing pain. There's no way any of those patients got a proper job done.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#214

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

dpflan wrote: post #67

This passage feels like it is premise of the article; the author eventually comes to terms with her tea-sipping and resting as recovery, and this doctor explains the reasoning behind the medical decision-making which is very clear (and mindful/thoughtful) I think. “To paraphrase him [German anesthesiologist], he said: ‘Pain is a part of life. We cannot eliminate it nor do we want to. The pain will guide you. You will…

My suspicion is that paracetamol / acetaminophen and ibuprofen are so incredibly not-good for you, and this anaesthesiologist knows this, that he covering his ass by minimising how much he doles out.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#215

Post by Someone »

agumonkey wrote: post #171

I really wonder how much psychological trick one can play on it's post surgical pain. You know if you're in a blissful happy environment and not a post-butchery waiting room it might change your day from dread to "ok".

It ,ay be hard or impossible to do, but the potential certainly is there. http://theconversation.com/emotions-affect-how-pain-feels-as...:

”Beecher initially wondered whether these war-wounded men were generally insensitive – for chemical or hormonal reasons, for instance. However, this turned out to be untrue since even badly wounded patients who claimed not to be in pain cursed medics who were rough when giving them an injection. Instead Beecher concluded that the best explanation for the men’s lack of pain involved their emotional state. They were not suffering because their wounds represented an escape “from an exceedingly dangerous environment, one filled with fatigue, discomfort, anxiety, fear and real danger of death,” but because they provided them with “a ticket to the safety of the hospital”.”

Simplifying the explanation, it seems optimism (?or delusion?) (“things will get better” or, maybe, “the pain prevents me from doing things that will do more harm”) helps decrease suffering.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#216

Post by dpark »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #166
stevebmark wrote: post #129

> I didn’t mention that I use ibuprofen like candy Never, ever become like this person. Do not make a habit out of taking ibuprofen and assuming it's benign. If you have to take painkillers every day to function then something else is wrong and you need to address that. NSAIDs alter chemical production in your body and over the long term can cause permanent damage.

Can't really tell if this part was sarcasm, especially the children's cough sirup that makes sleepy. Is this a thing!?

Lots of cough/cold medicine will make the user drowsy. The typical cough suppressant dextromethorphan can cause drowsiness on it’s own. First generation antihistamines such as doxylamine are also often included in “cough and cold” medicines and can cause significant drowsiness.

Near as I can tell, doxylamine has literally no purpose in these medications except to cause drowsiness. It doesn’t do anything for the cough or for a runny/stuffy nose caused by an infection. You’ll find this combo in NyQuil.

So yes, it’s really a thing, though it probably shouldn’t be (the doxylamine part at least).

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#217

Post by germanier »

woolvalley wrote: post #168
nosickdays wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a rather salient point. In the Netherlands, if I needed (in consultation with my doctor, of course) to stay out of work for a year to recuperate from illness or injury, I can do that and continue to receive my full salary. The second year would be at 70% salary. My job would await my return - only after 2 years would I be separated from my employer and have access to other long-term disability benefits. In th…

Who is paying for that 1 years salary?

For the first six weeks the employer (small employers need mandatory insurance for that), after that their health insurance (which gets some lump payments from the federal government for that).

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#218

Post by trhway »

akira2501 wrote: post #213
dpark wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dentist in California said he had several patients from Eastern Europe and Russia who had dental treatment like this, and their teeth were all mangled from treatment without anesthesia. He had done numerous re-drilling’s and re-fillings and root canals on these patients to deal with decay in teeth that had already been treated in their home countries. They had decay underneath fillings because the original treatme…

> They had decay underneath fillings because the original treatment had essentially only gone as deep as the patient could stand. In the middle of a root-canal my anesthetic completely wore off. I was able to feel the nerve root in my tooth being twisted up into a metal file and snapped out, along with all the canal filing and packing that happens afterwards. White-hot all-encompassing pain. There's no way any of tho…

Nerves were killed by arsenic. Still very painful, yet not a (fully) live nerve fortunately.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#219

Post by dpark »

Johnny555 wrote: post #95

Related: some studies have found that opioids are no better than ibuprofen+acetaminophen: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/as-epidemic-rages-er... And I believe it. My wife had somewhat involved oral surgery (1 regular extraction plus removal of 2 impacted molars embedded in her jaw - it was difficult enough that they said a broken jaw during the procedure was a possible complication. The doctor prescribed a w…

> it was difficult enough that they said a broken jaw during the procedure was a possible complication.

This is boilerplate for tooth extraction. I was told the same when I had my wisdom teeth removed.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#220

Post by dpark »

akira2501 wrote: post #213
dpark wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dentist in California said he had several patients from Eastern Europe and Russia who had dental treatment like this, and their teeth were all mangled from treatment without anesthesia. He had done numerous re-drilling’s and re-fillings and root canals on these patients to deal with decay in teeth that had already been treated in their home countries. They had decay underneath fillings because the original treatme…

> They had decay underneath fillings because the original treatment had essentially only gone as deep as the patient could stand. In the middle of a root-canal my anesthetic completely wore off. I was able to feel the nerve root in my tooth being twisted up into a metal file and snapped out, along with all the canal filing and packing that happens afterwards. White-hot all-encompassing pain. There's no way any of tho…

I’ve had a root canal where the anesthesia didn’t wear off but simply wasn’t complete. It was still the most painful thing I’ve experienced. If I needed a root canal without anesthesia I’d just ask for an extraction. No way I’d even attempt a root canal without anesthesia.
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