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As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

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Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#201

Post by Fej »

rdtsc wrote: post #153
lewis500 wrote: post #40

There are really three different downsides to this. First, the foreign students cross-subsidize the locals' education. There are large fixed costs to running a university and these students pay way above their marginal costs. So now the universities have fewer resources; hence cutting the newspaper funding etc. Second, the foreign students increase the schools' reputations and can collaborate with the faculty. Resear…

> First, the foreign students cross-subsidize the locals' education. There are large fixed costs to running a university and these students pay way above their marginal costs. So now the universities have fewer resources; hence cutting the newspaper funding etc. Well any out-of-state student would do that not just international ones. There is a deeper problem there in that these universities perhaps simply can't affo…

> There is a deeper problem there in that these universities perhaps simply can't afford to have 10 foreign languages or gyms or sports clubs.

I always found it weird that universities evolved to become sports franchises; it's at the very least orthogonal to being an institution of higher learning if not opposed to it, given that sports programs siphon money away that could be used in intellectual pursuits.

I'm a bit proud that my university does not have a (gridiron) football team; we did once but it was disbanded in the 1910s because the sport was becoming more violent.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#202

Post by [deleted] »

fellellor wrote: post #57
mc32 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As other have pointed out, this is mostly about the schools losing full-tuition international students, ie.e "International students pay double the $6,445 tuition of Missouri residents" --which is insane. I mean, it's insane for in-state students to have to shell out 6.5 thousand a year for higher ed... The international students are typically those kids of parents who are perhaps middle to upper middle class in a fo…

>go back home for a job Haha. Not really. American salaries, standards of living are among the highest/best in the planet. Plus an abundance of economic opportunities and relatively low discrimination compared to what one may face in other developed countries. These are the only factors which decide whether a family sends their kid to the US for higher ed or not. The degrees themselves aren't worth much at all. Unles…

[deleted]

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#203

Post by pm90 »

prostoalex wrote: post #174
lewis500 wrote: post #40

There are really three different downsides to this. First, the foreign students cross-subsidize the locals' education. There are large fixed costs to running a university and these students pay way above their marginal costs. So now the universities have fewer resources; hence cutting the newspaper funding etc. Second, the foreign students increase the schools' reputations and can collaborate with the faculty. Resear…

> There are large fixed costs to running a university and these students pay way above their marginal costs. There’s a slight silver lining to this - up until now there’s been very little motivation to reduce those large fixed costs.

If you read the article, you will see a that a lot of professors in more artistic fields (and many such programs) are being shut down. I don't think that is what you want from a University.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#204

Post by pm90 »

trentmb wrote: post #190
lewis500 wrote: post #40

There are really three different downsides to this. First, the foreign students cross-subsidize the locals' education. There are large fixed costs to running a university and these students pay way above their marginal costs. So now the universities have fewer resources; hence cutting the newspaper funding etc. Second, the foreign students increase the schools' reputations and can collaborate with the faculty. Resear…

1 and 3 seem like a weird form of colonialism.

Its "brain drain" and no way is it colonialism. None of these students are being "made" to emigrate; in fact a sizable amount actually return to their home countries.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#205

Post by pm90 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #87
lewis500 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding PhDs, grad international enrollment is declining. Regarding the full-paying foreign undergrads, their tuition contributes towards the costs of the university that are shared. American students, especially at middle-ranking public schools, are hurt when schools lose their funding. Regarding the "racism against Americans," there is no such race, and if there were one it would not explain research productivity…

> Regarding PhDs, grad international enrollment is declining. Your source on that? All the schools I’m in contact with are still as international as ever in their CS PhD departments. I’m not sure what the trends are outside of CS, but I can’t imagine they would be very different. I think you are just pulling this number out of thin air. Research is funded quite differently from undergrad programs. Sure, fewer TAships…

> Your source on that? All the schools I’m in contact with are still as international as ever in their CS PhD departments. I’m not sure what the trends are outside of CS, but I can’t imagine they would be very different. I think you are just pulling this number out of thin air.

So you're asking for a source when your own view is based on anecdotes? Great.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#206

Post by ForRealsies »

cm2187 wrote: post #170
lewis500 wrote: post #40

There are really three different downsides to this. First, the foreign students cross-subsidize the locals' education. There are large fixed costs to running a university and these students pay way above their marginal costs. So now the universities have fewer resources; hence cutting the newspaper funding etc. Second, the foreign students increase the schools' reputations and can collaborate with the faculty. Resear…

Fourth downside: there are exceptions but most of the US educated foreign students who go back home tend to have a good opinion of the US and also tend to make a good career at home. This is a very powerful form of soft power.

Switzerland did wonders for Kim Jong Un.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#207

Post by pm90 »

mc32 wrote: post #36
petilon wrote: post #10

This is bad news. People like Sergey Brin, co-founder of Google, Elon Musk, founder of Tesla and SpaceX, not to mention CEOs of Google, Microsoft and Adobe all came to the US as students. Without the immigration of the brightest on the planet, the US will, over time, lose its edge.

As other have pointed out, this is mostly about the schools losing full-tuition international students, ie.e "International students pay double the $6,445 tuition of Missouri residents" --which is insane. I mean, it's insane for in-state students to have to shell out 6.5 thousand a year for higher ed... The international students are typically those kids of parents who are perhaps middle to upper middle class in a fo…

Let me ask you: do you think lesser funding will make the universities admit more international students that pay less tuition? I, for one, don't see that happening. Especially in state schools.

There is a market to provide good education. Some students have the merit and the means to pay for it, others don't have the means but have merit. It makes 0 sense to deny those that are able to pay just because they can.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#208

Post by pm90 »

nishs wrote: post #162
dmode wrote: post #42

I would highly recommend to Indian students not to study in the US going forward. At least until the generally hostile attitude towards immigrants and meaningful reforms in GC attainment is done. If you plan to lay down your roots in America after school, it will simply not happen in the current climate. Go study in Canada, Australia, UK, and India and contribute to those societies

s/Indian students/international students ?

No, because the wait for Green Card is much more reasonable for any country except India.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#209

Post by crankylinuxuser »

pm90 wrote: post #203
prostoalex wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are large fixed costs to running a university and these students pay way above their marginal costs. There’s a slight silver lining to this - up until now there’s been very little motivation to reduce those large fixed costs.

If you read the article, you will see a that a lot of professors in more artistic fields (and many such programs) are being shut down. I don't think that is what you want from a University.

Well, the Arts sure doesn't bring in any great and amazing new works, nor does it really make money. So yeah, trash it and most "liberal arts". They're not STEM, and they're a sinkhole for money....

(Karl Marx warned of this, as capitalism only sees value in what produces more value. Artistic and liberal arts value is harder to calculate, thus pointless)

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#210

Post by pm90 »

throwaway7312 wrote: post #197
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I'm not American. But my view is that the American right has placed itself outside the Overton window of anyone with a higher education. For example, the President is a climate change denier. How do you expect those views to be represented in universities when they fly in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence? In most countries, this problem doesn't exist because parties with ideas equivalent to th…

Climate change isn't a very good example. Individuals who subscribe to anthropogenic global warming and individuals who are skeptical of it have equal levels of scientific comprehension. [1] It's more accurate to note that either side of the political divide in the United States has its share of unscientific beliefs. On the right, you have things like creationism and anti-vaxxers. On the left, you have things like ge…

The right and left are not equivalent. While anti-GMO may be a personal preference for many hipsters, its most certainly not the defining agenda of the left. Also the left seem to be much more willing to change their beliefs in the face of scientific evidence, whereas the Right is more theology, faith and other such nonsense. So don't say they're equivalent, because they simply aren't.
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