Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chrome is Not the Standard

chriskrycho.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 465 posts

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#261

Post by tracker1 »

abritinthebay wrote: post #218
NightlyDev wrote: post #169

"Safari ships new features on a much slower cadence, but they’re usually solid and always perform incredibly well" Well, clearly this person doesn't have much experience with web development... The webengine in iOS is the biggest pile of crap I've ever worked with since IE6. "Oh? You want to click this? OK, let's wait for 300 ms just in case you want to double tap to scroll!" "We finally fixed it, no more delay on cl…

Based on this you either never had to work with IE6 compatibility, or you have a really bad memory. Not least most of what you mention (other than the 300ms delay) is OS level anyhow.

I worked with IE6 both as it became the defacto standard browser everywhere, and for the years it took Mozilla Phoenix^wFirebird^wFirefox to take hold as the defining force, and then Chrome coming to dominate.

When IE6 came out it was kind of a breath of fresh air... it allowed for a lot of things, and the v4 browsers finally fell off the map. IE 5.0.0 had some hideous bugs on stamped CDs (Office 2000, Windows 2000) that I had to work around for a couple years. IE6 corrected many of them.

Now as things progressed, IE6 became a boat anchor for a long time.. and IE7/8/9 though relatively current at release fell behind very quickly. IE10-11 were also rans in my opinion, and I'm glad most people get to ignore them now.

Nothing compares to dealing with IE4 + NN4 issues... it was truly painful and I'll take what we have today over either. Most people aren't dealing with most of the newer browser features... but for those that are, it can be bad. Safari is the worst actor in the bunch, and they are emphatically not rock solid on that front.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#262

Post by drvortex »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #235
drvortex wrote: post #192

Standards are irrelevant to pragmatism. De facto standards are what is important. By virture of sheer popularity, Chrome is the de facto standard. And if they have provided anything that becomes useful or popular, then by virtue of popularity of that feature in what is already the post popular browser, makes that feature part of the de facto standard. The post is just pedantic whining about how something isn't accord…

Chrome isn't the de facto standard, it doesn't have complete dominance of the web yet so you also have to support, at the very least, Safari.

No, it doesn't have complete dominance. But it has more share than all the other players combined. https://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php

That is a dominating position making it the de facto standard, even if not absolute.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#263

Post by eitland »

allenz wrote: post #107
yoavm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand this attitude. Mozilla doesn't need to be everything I ever wanted from a browser in order to get my support. It only needs to be better than Google. Are all these people sticking with Chrome because Mozilla is not holding up to its values really think Google is better at taking care of our freedom?!

These past episodes show that Mozilla can be tempted by money to go against their core values of user choice and privacy. Only in small ways so far, but trust is easy to lose. If you don't like Google, you can always use Chromium or Brave. I trust them not to run marketing campaigns inside my browser.

> I trust them not to run marketing campaigns inside my browser.

Do you also trust them not to listen to your mic? I think debian had to have a discussion with them about that.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#264

Post by thekingofh »

bhawks wrote: post #207

I wish the author discussed the fact that Apple doesn't allow any other browsers to target the iOS platform. Chrome / Firefox are forced to be thin wrappers against the webkit engine instead of bringing their own technology. No other platform has policies like this and it greatly impacts the web platform and changes the dynamic of web standards in a way no other browser developer could.

If it makes you feel any better there's some of us that left iOS for this exact reason. I don't like Apple telling me what I can and can't do with my computer.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#265

Post by JohnBooty »

drvortex wrote: post #192

Standards are irrelevant to pragmatism. De facto standards are what is important. By virture of sheer popularity, Chrome is the de facto standard. And if they have provided anything that becomes useful or popular, then by virtue of popularity of that feature in what is already the post popular browser, makes that feature part of the de facto standard. The post is just pedantic whining about how something isn't accord…

The practical upshot of what you're saying is that the browser vendor with the biggest market share can do whatever the heck they want, and everybody else can either reverse-engineer it or eat dirt.

I'd tell you why you're so spectacularly wrong, but since we've already lived through the nightmare you're currently endorsing... instead I'll simply refer you to the 1990s and early 2000s.

You don't want that.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#266

Post by abritinthebay »

tracker1 wrote: post #261
abritinthebay wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on this you either never had to work with IE6 compatibility, or you have a really bad memory. Not least most of what you mention (other than the 300ms delay) is OS level anyhow.

I worked with IE6 both as it became the defacto standard browser everywhere, and for the years it took Mozilla Phoenix^wFirebird^wFirefox to take hold as the defining force, and then Chrome coming to dominate. When IE6 came out it was kind of a breath of fresh air... it allowed for a lot of things, and the v4 browsers finally fell off the map. IE 5.0.0 had some hideous bugs on stamped CDs (Office 2000, Windows 2000)…

People do forget that IE was legitimately a good browser for quite a while - starting around IE3 it really did quite well. Plus I'll take IE4 + NN4 issues vs IE6/7/8 issues in 20-freaking-14 (or beyond, argh). IE9 at least fixed a lot.

At least the early IE vs NN stuff was fast to change and interesting. IE6 issues were the exact opposite :(

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#267

Post by bluetwo »

teilo wrote: post #139
bluetwo wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they didn't get paid, why on earth did they do it?

Not all incentives are direct financial incentives. It's free marketing. It increases market penetration. It encourages people who only use Chrome to try Firefox. It was absolutely the wrong thing to do, but it's not like they stood nothing to gain from it.

Is this based on any fact or is it hyperbole?

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#268

Post by steveklabnik »

narsil wrote: post #196
city41 wrote: post #132

I switched to Firefox, and I was blown away to find that Google Meet (the new Hangouts) does not work. You just get the message "Meet doesn't work on your browser". I'm also impressed at how many of my job's internal websites don't work. This doesn't bug me as much, but it's obvious the devs who created them didn't even do a sanity check in Firefox.

Yeah the old Hangouts doesn't either.

There's been some recent movement on this https://twitter.com/tsahil/status/943471207692763136

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#269

Post by bobajeff »

userbinator wrote: post #30

developers grouse about the other browser makers who are “holding the web back.” Indeed, perhaps "holding the web back" is a good thing if it means websites will be more accessible overall, to even less common browsers like NetSurf, Dillo, and all the other text-based ones. IMHO the "feature war/race" between the major browser vendors has had an overall negative effect, as if all sites somehow need to turn into ridic…

I'm not sure but I suspect the DOM is the reason small browser implementations can't catch up. I think over the years specifying interactions with JavaScript and CSS have led to ambiguities in the standard and undefined behavior.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#270

Post by Waterluvian »

NightlyDev wrote: post #169

"Safari ships new features on a much slower cadence, but they’re usually solid and always perform incredibly well" Well, clearly this person doesn't have much experience with web development... The webengine in iOS is the biggest pile of crap I've ever worked with since IE6. "Oh? You want to click this? OK, let's wait for 300 ms just in case you want to double tap to scroll!" "We finally fixed it, no more delay on cl…

Oh so you want a large canvas on an iPad? No, F you. That might impact performance so we restrict it.
Post reply on HN