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Chrome is Not the Standard

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Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#21

Post by wrs »

cakeface wrote: post #8
appdrag wrote: post #3

"Safari ships new features on a much slower cadence, but they’re usually solid and always perform incredibly well." I really don't agree at all with this, Safari is the new Internet explorer ... https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com/

I sometimes feel like Chrome is the new Internet Explorer too! There have been a number of GSuite features from Google that don't work on Firefox. Google Hangouts for one! Also on that list was U2F auth and some others. Here we have Google products that only work on the Google browser. What does that sound like? Maybe Microsoft and all their ActiveX IE shenanigans in the past! The moral of the story, which I think th…

That is backwards. Nearly everything in the web platform began as a proprietary extension, including JavaScript and XHR. Standardizing something that has never been used in real life is a bad idea. Convincing the other browser vendors to implement your new idea is usually impossible. So insisting that only standards ever be used would result in no progress at all.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#22

Post by csydas »

appdrag wrote: post #3

"Safari ships new features on a much slower cadence, but they’re usually solid and always perform incredibly well." I really don't agree at all with this, Safari is the new Internet explorer ... https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com/

This doesn't really refute what the author is saying; the main thrust behind the website and the blog post the site references is that Safari doesn't adopt new features Chrome does, which is basically the exact thing which the author of the article we're commenting on is saying is a bad position to take.

I have no horse in this race, since I like Safari when I'm on Apple products and I will happily use Chrome or Firefox or IE/Edge depending on what's available, but I agree with the author of the primary article here; we shouldn't put one browser up on a pedestal just because of release cycles or cool projects it does and let it dictate how the web should look and behave.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#23

Post by joshuamorton »

cakeface wrote: post #8
appdrag wrote: post #3

"Safari ships new features on a much slower cadence, but they’re usually solid and always perform incredibly well." I really don't agree at all with this, Safari is the new Internet explorer ... https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com/

I sometimes feel like Chrome is the new Internet Explorer too! There have been a number of GSuite features from Google that don't work on Firefox. Google Hangouts for one! Also on that list was U2F auth and some others. Here we have Google products that only work on the Google browser. What does that sound like? Maybe Microsoft and all their ActiveX IE shenanigans in the past! The moral of the story, which I think th…

>Google Hangouts for one!

I believe this now works on FF, according to an HN post yesterday.

>If you don't like the standards, advocate for new ones!

I think the problem with this is it means that I can't provide something useful until the standards body updates, which could be a cadence of years. In that timeframe, a competitor will break the standard.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#24

Post by ebbv »

kevmo wrote: post #4

I know they screwed up recently with the Mr. Robot malware, but I think it's really important for developers to get behind Firefox again. As the American government fails to provide any sort of check on its behemoth corporations (Apple, Google, and Microsoft) and to protect consumer privacy, Firefox is basically the last contender for real consumer protection standing.

I get your point but considering Mozilla gets all of its funding from those same corporations I'm not sure how true that is.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#25

Post by ebbv »

cakeface wrote: post #8
appdrag wrote: post #3

"Safari ships new features on a much slower cadence, but they’re usually solid and always perform incredibly well." I really don't agree at all with this, Safari is the new Internet explorer ... https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com/

I sometimes feel like Chrome is the new Internet Explorer too! There have been a number of GSuite features from Google that don't work on Firefox. Google Hangouts for one! Also on that list was U2F auth and some others. Here we have Google products that only work on the Google browser. What does that sound like? Maybe Microsoft and all their ActiveX IE shenanigans in the past! The moral of the story, which I think th…

Hangouts uses a plugin. It's not using web standards. So using it as an example of breaking standards is really silly.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#27

Post by jarjoura »

appdrag wrote: post #3

"Safari ships new features on a much slower cadence, but they’re usually solid and always perform incredibly well." I really don't agree at all with this, Safari is the new Internet explorer ... https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com/

Yet, what Safari is, is competition. Also let's not forget that it gave the world WebKit and broke us free from the trap that was Flash.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#28

Post by newfoundglory »

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #19
makecheck wrote: post #11

I’m definitely seeing several sites lately that require me to use a particular browser, lest I see blank elements or “buttons” that infuriatingly do nothing when I click them except in certain browsers. It’s not consistent though. Usually switching to Safari is what works but sometimes I must use Firefox. On one government site it seemed the only working combo was to use an iPad , as no desktop browser worked on my M…

> On one government site it seemed the only working combo was to use an iPad, as no desktop browser worked on my Mac. Did you try using IE? I find some state government sites still work best on IE10/IE11

They had a Mac, so probably not.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#29

Post by Vinnl »

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #12
kevmo wrote: post #4

I know they screwed up recently with the Mr. Robot malware, but I think it's really important for developers to get behind Firefox again. As the American government fails to provide any sort of check on its behemoth corporations (Apple, Google, and Microsoft) and to protect consumer privacy, Firefox is basically the last contender for real consumer protection standing.

They didn't just screw up once . They've screwed up many times over the years with many projects and attempts that run counter to the core values that Mozilla claims to uphold. Bryan Lunduke articulated this very well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMALm1VthGY At this point Mozilla has to prove to us that they are worthy of our usage

Mozilla is in great parts its community, and so far, it has done a great job in keeping it in tow when it appeared to derail. The Mr. Robot thing has been retracted (although it was also largely portrayed as a privacy issue, which it wasn't), Pocket has been acquired, and the rest were mainly diversions that many people deem unnecessary but that aren't necessarily a threat to Mozilla's mission other than potentially distracting them.

So I think the project is relatively healthy, and in any case, still miles and miles ahead in terms of worthiness than every other major browser out there.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#30

Post by userbinator »

developers grouse about the other browser makers who are “holding the web back.”

Indeed, perhaps "holding the web back" is a good thing if it means websites will be more accessible overall, to even less common browsers like NetSurf, Dillo, and all the other text-based ones. IMHO the "feature war/race" between the major browser vendors has had an overall negative effect, as if all sites somehow need to turn into ridiculously bloated web apps instead of the simple and far more accessible hyperlinked collection of pages they once were. Keeping the browser choices diverse is a good thing, even if it means they will all display things slightly differently --- just find the lowest-common-denominator and emphasise the content, the stuff that people visiting sites really care about.

There's been some other related discussion on this topic recently:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15836027

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15943689

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