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Chrome is Not the Standard

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Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#91

Post by hungerstrike »

WorldMaker wrote: post #85
hungerstrike wrote: post #67

Chrome is the de facto standard at this time and all of the irrelevant, hyperbolic nitpicking and dubious conjecture isn't going to change that. But here's a thought: WebKit and Chromium (and Blink) are open source, so maybe don't worry about it? Furthermore, if all browsers don't work the same then that's a problem for developers. If we can't have that - I'd rather see just one browser engine in use by the majority…

Chrome is not Chromium, however. Just because there is a nougaty open source center doesn't mean that Chrome is entirely free from proprietary software worries and worries about Google's commercial interests infringing upon user interests/greater web interests. Additionally, Chromium isn't WebKit either. Blink forked from WebKit some time back and the fork continues to diverge, with WebKit and Blink disagreeing on so…

Yes thank you, I understand all of that - it's very well known among web developers. None of it changes my argument:

The majority of the functionality that we care about in our web browsers comes from an open source library.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#92

Post by Gracana »

bitwize wrote: post #50

The only relevant Web standard in every era is "does it work in the browser most people are using". So Netscape in 1995, IE in 2000, Chrome today. That's just the reality, unless you'd rather lose money doing Web development.

That really depends on the values of the business in question. Some would look at that differently, and argue that developing to wider standards and testing on other platforms is an investment in quality and longevity.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#93

Post by Fnoord »

Pharylon wrote: post #39
kevmo wrote: post #4

I know they screwed up recently with the Mr. Robot malware, but I think it's really important for developers to get behind Firefox again. As the American government fails to provide any sort of check on its behemoth corporations (Apple, Google, and Microsoft) and to protect consumer privacy, Firefox is basically the last contender for real consumer protection standing.

"The Mr. Robot Malware?" You mean the extension that did literally nothing unless you turned it on in about:config? That's "malware?"

We should put it in proportion. Is Chrome worse, privacy-wise? Safari? Edge? Security-wise? Performance-wise? Cause it all ends up, like on large sum of + and -.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#94

Post by sowbug »

ori_b wrote: post #59
ebbv wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hangouts uses a plugin. It's not using web standards. So using it as an example of breaking standards is really silly.

Ah. You mean like ActiveX?

Every major browser vendor has a proprietary extensions platform. It's a good thing; it enables innovation and solution-building without needing to leave the web platform entirely.

Chrome, Firefox, and Edge have Native Messaging. Safari's extensions platform uses "native APIs and familiar web technologies."

Yes, like ActiveX.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#95

Post by bluetwo »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #51
TheCoreh wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mr. Robot thing was not "malware". It was an easter egg, just like about:mozilla. You may say it was poor taste on Mozilla's part, since it was essentially a paid-for promotional tie-in with a TV show, and I would probably agree with you. But it did not damage anyone's computer, compromise any data or do anything that could put it on the "Malware" category. Something similar that noone has complained about are th…

> it was essentially a paid-for promotional tie-in From what I recall, it wasn't paid-for either. > we developed an unpaid collaboration to engage our users and viewers of the show in a new way Source: https://blog.mozilla.org/firefox/update-looking-glass-add/

If they didn't get paid, why on earth did they do it?

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#96

Post by pweissbrod »

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #12
kevmo wrote: post #4

I know they screwed up recently with the Mr. Robot malware, but I think it's really important for developers to get behind Firefox again. As the American government fails to provide any sort of check on its behemoth corporations (Apple, Google, and Microsoft) and to protect consumer privacy, Firefox is basically the last contender for real consumer protection standing.

They didn't just screw up once . They've screwed up many times over the years with many projects and attempts that run counter to the core values that Mozilla claims to uphold. Bryan Lunduke articulated this very well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMALm1VthGY At this point Mozilla has to prove to us that they are worthy of our usage

I'm not familiar with Bryan Lunduke but that video was supposed to pass as any form of reporting then it was absolutely cringe-worthy. Lots of inflated controversy and hyperbolic statements.

Its ironic seeing a company making questionable decisions being reported by someone getting paid for questionable reporting.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#97

Post by Spooky23 »

You have at least three viable browsers available on popular platforms. This is a great thing.

Developers who give a hoot about new features will be attracted to Chrome, it's just the nature of the game. If Firefox wants to attract those users, introduce more features.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#98

Post by shmerl »

Eupolemos wrote: post #83
shmerl wrote: post #69

Yeah. Yet, sites like Seamless glitch horribly in Firefox, and their tech support answers "try it in Chrome". Very annoying.

Actually, it is the opposite for me. Works fine in both, but in Chrome - if I open developer tools - I get 19 warnings and 1 error. None in FF.

For example, their integration with Paypal is completely broken in Firefox.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#99

Post by JohnBooty »

appdrag wrote: post #3

"Safari ships new features on a much slower cadence, but they’re usually solid and always perform incredibly well." I really don't agree at all with this, Safari is the new Internet explorer ... https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com/

Chrome is the new IE.

Chrome ships new features fast, and some of them are very cool. Because of course! "Embrace, extend, extinguish" doesn't work unless the "extend" part is full of shiny, delicious candy. And platform makers can make lots and lots of shiny candy when freed from pesky things like standards.

It's hard to believe we're having this discussion again. Did we learn nothing from Internet Explorer 6? IE6 damn near ruined the web because it had 95% market share, was objectively terrible, and it encouraged lock-in with its nonstandard behavior and "convenient" proprietary features.

Now, of course Chrome isn't terrible like IE6. And that's both good and dangerous ...because Microsoft might have "won" if IE6 was any good at all. Luckily, IE6 was so terrible that Mozilla was able to win back a sizeable enough portion of the web with a far superior product, and FF's market share was big enough that people had to start paying attention to web standards again.

No such savior in the form of a "far superior product" is likely to exist this time around. Chrome's pretty darn nice, and as long as it doesn't suck as bad as IE6, we'll never see a direct competitor that eclipses Chrome in the way that FF1.0 surpassed the god-awful IE6.

That means we, the developers, are the only thing between an open web and a dangerous Google monoculture. Support web standards, not proprietary lock-in. Develop for the web, not for Chrome. Stick to the standards and it's pretty easy. And fun.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#100

Post by adregan »

smoyer wrote: post #60

I like Chrome but lately I've spent almost all my time in Firefox Developer Edition. When I use Chrome it's to verify that it behaves the same way on more than one Javascript engine.

I switched to FF Developer Edition a little over a year ago, and I have caught several bugs that went unnoticed by my Chrome using colleagues.
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