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2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

bugs.winehq.org

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Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#51

Post by uhhhhhhh »

notrly wrote: post #43
uhhhhhhh wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, this is not for CS5 compatibility specifically (that was one of the more visible impacted apps), but multi-threaded applications that continuously poll for mouse state against a non-thread safe state-cache introduced in an earlier version. Also wine is not linux, and photoshop is not a linux program. If you want to run Linux only, then alternatives like krita, gimp etc.. exist that work natively. While I…

> alternatives Don't know about Krita, but Gimp still (?) has no good CMYK support, so buh bai printing industry. Not an alternative.

Krita + Gimp can cover nearly all use cases from my understanding. Yes, as I mentioned GIMP doesn't really have CMYK support so that's limited to RGB editing (web, digital etc..), however Krita has it and has come a long ways.

So I'll double down on my statement that a good 20-30% of photoshop use cases can be covered by GIMP, with the exception of non-RBG requirements like printing that could possibly move to Krita or other tools.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#52

Post by Fnoord »

uhhhhhhh wrote: post #46
Fnoord wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "for free" offer was temporary, and has expired . That is what matters. It even worked on pirated versions. You could even upgrade say your Windows XP to a later version (pirated or not) and then upgrade to Windows 10, for free. You get a valid license that way. You paid 2-fold: one, you were an early adopter and therefore beta tester. Two, you paid with your privacy. The anti-spyware toolkits to remove the telem…

The free upgrade was to gain critical mass for the upgrade, they learned with vista, 8/8.1 that users were happy with xp/7 and wouldn't pay to change, even with LTS running out. Free upgrade was a way to convince a lot of those people to upgrade. I wouldn't compare it to Linux being free in any way. Microsoft needs to reboot to do most of its updates of its own tools, not because of badly programmed 3rd party apps bu…

> The free upgrade was to gain critical mass for the upgrade, they learned with vista, 8/8.1 that users were happy with xp/7 and wouldn't pay to change, even with LTS running out. Free upgrade was a way to convince a lot of those people to upgrade.

That is one of the reasons.

> I wouldn't compare it to Linux being free in any way.

Obviously not, given "Linux" is free as in speech. But free as in beer, when you also take into account things like support, doesn't exist. TANSTAAFL. And with macOS you pay via the hardware.

> (sometimes for 30-60 minutes while it tries to install updates)

On a SSD? Very unlikely, unless you're upgrading to a major version. True, Microsoft could make most of these updates being applied whilst OS is still online.

You can schedule these reboots if you got Pro. macOS also sometimes needs to reboot btw. My Android reboots every week (LOS) for new firmware.

What I said about apps requiring unnecesarily a reboot is true though. It used to be far more pervasive as well.

> Windows store is very far from anything like a linux package manager, and it ties you into their ecosystem without extensibility. Same with Apple. Linux package management is extensible and controllable (get packages from these sources, not those, blacklist this version, etc...) so I wouldn't consider them anywhere remotely equivalent.

Depends if you view it from the eyes of a power user or a casual user. The non-technical user just wants something which works ie. a good UI. App Store and Play Store provide that. Those non-technical users don't give a rat about features like "get packages from these sources, not those, blacklist this version".

> The obvious/known privacy issues in windows 10 can be disabled, but the fact the user has to know about find and run third party, reasonably advanced tools/scripts to stop the operating system from spying and advertising to you is absolutely not acceptable from my perspective.

Yeah, true, though the default settings aren't difficult to apply this is a feature most users won't use (just like "only" 33% of the browsers use an adblocker). That, together with their old model of selling licenses, is their business model.

Its funny how in these last 2 points we both shift from PoV of power user to ordinary user and vice versa.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#53

Post by vetinari »

Const-me wrote: post #47
vetinari wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did that happen? I have a machine, that I'm going to switch from hyper-v to esxi, because the IO is abysmal.

It happened quite long ago, most Intel CPUs have VT-d since Nehalem (first gen of core i-s, 2008). However, even for modern systems, not all motherboards supports that. Also sometimes the setting is disabled by default in BIOS/UEFI.

I'm talking about Hyper-V IO performance improvements, not VT-d... My E5-2630 does support VT-d, but under Hyper-V, it's not anywhere near bare metal performance.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#54

Post by kogepathic »

Fnoord wrote: post #26
realusername wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard of this "Windows 10" indeed but does it run on Linux ?

Hyper-V can run a full-blown Linux kernel + OS with virtually no performance loss compared to native (on recent x86-64 hardware). There's also Windows Subsystem for Linux. You can get a full-blown OS like Ubuntu or SuSE that way. Well, that is, sans Linux kernel and sans X11.

> There's also Windows Subsystem for Linux. You can get a full-blown OS like Ubuntu or SuSE that way. Well, that is, sans Linux kernel and sans X11.

You can use X11 applications if you install an X11 agent in Windows such as Xming. But it's not pleasant. I don't know if it's WSL or Xming at fault, but 2D performance in X is pretty abysmal.

I've run applications like gedit and evince on WSL with Xming. It's also fairly annoying that you cannot print from WSL applications, and to my knowledge you cannot access devices either (e.g. USB to serial adapter).

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#55

Post by Nullabillity »

Const-me wrote: post #47
vetinari wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did that happen? I have a machine, that I'm going to switch from hyper-v to esxi, because the IO is abysmal.

It happened quite long ago, most Intel CPUs have VT-d since Nehalem (first gen of core i-s, 2008). However, even for modern systems, not all motherboards supports that. Also sometimes the setting is disabled by default in BIOS/UEFI.

Intel only made VT-d a standard feature in Skylake. Good luck getting a K-model Nehalem with VT-d.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#56

Post by jcadam »

majewsky wrote: post #49
userbinator wrote: post #44

Consider this an "outside opinion" from an external developer, but my first impression upon reading the thread is that I think the whole design of "key state caching" is wrong and a symptom of a bigger problem. Apps are polling GetAsyncKeyState() for good reason --- because they want that low-latency responsiveness which is important in situations like drawing with the mouse. Adding a cache defeats that, hence leadin…

I thought the saying goes, "Every problem can be solved by adding another abstraction, except the problem of too many layers of abstraction." ;)

That's not funny - I work in an enterprise Java shop :'(

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#57

Post by Fnoord »

vetinari wrote: post #53
Const-me wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It happened quite long ago, most Intel CPUs have VT-d since Nehalem (first gen of core i-s, 2008). However, even for modern systems, not all motherboards supports that. Also sometimes the setting is disabled by default in BIOS/UEFI.

I'm talking about Hyper-V IO performance improvements, not VT-d... My E5-2630 does support VT-d, but under Hyper-V, it's not anywhere near bare metal performance.

AFAIK the I/O issues (hardware-wise, not talking about hyper-V specifically) were solved late '00s. Whether a HVM implements it or not is a different matter.

From what I found its called Enlightened I/O as mentioned here [1] and with Hyper-V it works with Windows Vista & later, Windows 2008 & later, Linux kernel 3.14 and later, and "FreeBSD".

If what you say is true, and its also true for ESXi, Docker, VirtualBox, KVM, etc. It'd be devastating for containers and cloud.

Docker on Windows uses Hyper-V by default btw.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-V

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#58

Post by progman »

tambourine_man wrote: post #31

Post like that brings me back to earth every time I dream of running Linux only. I commend the work of everyone involved, people working for free on their spare time for the common benefit is great. But celebrating CS5 compatibility in late 2017… it's sobering.

> Post like that brings me back to earth every time I dream of running Linux only.

It's not a Linux problem, it's a Windows emulation problem in Wine.

As for Linux, I'm using it for 25+ years, and I ditched Windows 10+ years ago. Windows is not necessary to do stuff. However, if you vitally depend on CS5 then running CS5 in emulation is not the best idea. At least you can use it properly in a PC emulator like VMware in Linux.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#59

Post by bmn__ »

notrly wrote: post #43
uhhhhhhh wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, this is not for CS5 compatibility specifically (that was one of the more visible impacted apps), but multi-threaded applications that continuously poll for mouse state against a non-thread safe state-cache introduced in an earlier version. Also wine is not linux, and photoshop is not a linux program. If you want to run Linux only, then alternatives like krita, gimp etc.. exist that work natively. While I…

> alternatives Don't know about Krita, but Gimp still (?) has no good CMYK support, so buh bai printing industry. Not an alternative.

That is incorrect, it exists since 2011.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEGL#babl http://www.gegl.org/babl/

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