Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

bugs.winehq.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 84 posts

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#21

Post by exikyut »

martin_andrino wrote: post #18
datenwolf wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do all of my electronics development work on Linux. In part also using nonfree software. This is not a matter of principle for me, but a matter of productivity and efficiency. - design circuit and PCB using EAGLE (nonfree – and BTW fuck that Autodesk subscription model). - perform circuit simulation using LTSpice. - compile firmware using a GCC toolchain – if using a MinGW port on Windows the linking times even for…

I bet you also use GIMP because you never understood how Photoshop is superior, right? sigh Open-source software is definitely inferior, why people keep ignoring this obvious fact?

I completely agree that The GIMP and Inkscape are not a sight on Photochop. It's quite obvious - the former are developed by volunteer hobbyists, the latter by a paid team of engineers who have focused job titles.

But that doesn't make them inferior, because user-interface consistency and ease of use are not the only metrics used in the real world to select software by.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#22

Post by Fnoord »

martin_andrino wrote: post #5

I still wonder why Wine exists at all given that Windows 10 is an excellent OS - definitely more secure than their counterparts, and completely free.

I'll bite. Ignoring the obvious bait it is an interesting question.

Windows 10, by default, comes with Microsoft spyware (or settings) which one has to remove.

Running Windows 10 native isn't always possible or desirable.

You can run WINE (and CrossOver, the commercial 'version' of WINE) on any platform including Linux (e.g. Ubuntu), macOS, and [recently] ChromeOS.

Its also being used in more obscure OSes like *BSD and Illumos. And its a core part of ReactOS, which is basically a native FOSS Windows version which can run software backwards compatible.

One could even run WINE on say a Raspberry Pi, together with QEMU. Also, not every architecture has a good HVM with virtually no performance loss. Think of ARM or older Intel/AMD CPUs (if you'd reapply the cooling paste these machines could still run just as new).

Finally, if you'd run Windows 10 in a HVM you'd have a lot of additional bells and whistles. Though IIRC it is possible to just run one application in one window with say VMware or VirtualBox.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#23

Post by Fnoord »

exikyut wrote: post #21
martin_andrino wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet you also use GIMP because you never understood how Photoshop is superior, right? sigh Open-source software is definitely inferior, why people keep ignoring this obvious fact?

I completely agree that The GIMP and Inkscape are not a sight on Photochop. It's quite obvious - the former are developed by volunteer hobbyists, the latter by a paid team of engineers who have focused job titles. But that doesn't make them inferior , because user-interface consistency and ease of use are not the only metrics used in the real world to select software by.

What is better or worse should also include a cost/benefit analysis on the price of the product(s). That should include the cost of things like support, or the cost of in-house experts.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#24

Post by Jetroid »

martin_andrino wrote: post #5

I still wonder why Wine exists at all given that Windows 10 is an excellent OS - definitely more secure than their counterparts, and completely free.

This seems like a very naive view to me. This attack on Wine is by extension an attack on Linux, or otherwise I don't understand it. Wine exists for convenience for Linux users to use Software that has not been made available on Linux.

Some advantages of Linux:

* Can choose from a variety of window managers to suit your needs, from windows-like (Chalet, Zorin), to developer focussed (eg i3)

* Linux is free. Windows 10 isn't, unlike you claim. Unless I'm been mislead, the Windows 10 for-free offer was simply an ugrade for existing Windows installs; not a free to all offering. It's therefore unavailable unless you've already 'bought-in' to the Microsoft ecosystem.

* Linux has had updating figured out for years and lets you update in the background. Windows still pesters you do reboot.

* Package managers are a much more efficient way to download and install software than any way I have seen on Windows.

Some disadvantages of Windows 10:

* Bundled with a lot of bloatware (from what I have seen)

* Tracking / selling user data (PII? Not sure.)

* Ads on the start menu

Plus, with the existence of Linux, at least Microsoft doesn't have a full monopoly over the PC OS market. That said, I'd rather have myself be nestled firmly in the hands of a community than a corporation.

I still wonder why Windows exists when Linux is such an excellent OS. /s

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#25

Post by pjc50 »

fps_doug wrote: post #17

Too bad I don't have the time to read the long comment thread on there right now. Hopefully I will remember to do so after work. :) Instances like this are really interesting to me, as it seems early on in the thread the commit the broke Photoshop was identified, yet it took them 5 years to finally commit a fix. From the outside it's easy to say the wine devs are lazy/stupid for not having fixed it right away, but I…

I skimmed it and saw at least two attempts that were backed out for various reasons.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#26

Post by Fnoord »

realusername wrote: post #16
martin_andrino wrote: post #5

I still wonder why Wine exists at all given that Windows 10 is an excellent OS - definitely more secure than their counterparts, and completely free.

I heard of this "Windows 10" indeed but does it run on Linux ?

Hyper-V can run a full-blown Linux kernel + OS with virtually no performance loss compared to native (on recent x86-64 hardware).

There's also Windows Subsystem for Linux. You can get a full-blown OS like Ubuntu or SuSE that way. Well, that is, sans Linux kernel and sans X11.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#27

Post by Fnoord »

Jetroid wrote: post #24
martin_andrino wrote: post #5

I still wonder why Wine exists at all given that Windows 10 is an excellent OS - definitely more secure than their counterparts, and completely free.

This seems like a very naive view to me. This attack on Wine is by extension an attack on Linux, or otherwise I don't understand it. Wine exists for convenience for Linux users to use Software that has not been made available on Linux. Some advantages of Linux: * Can choose from a variety of window managers to suit your needs, from windows-like (Chalet, Zorin), to developer focussed (eg i3) * Linux is free. Windows 1…

The "for free" offer was temporary, and has expired. That is what matters.

It even worked on pirated versions. You could even upgrade say your Windows XP to a later version (pirated or not) and then upgrade to Windows 10, for free. You get a valid license that way.

You paid 2-fold: one, you were an early adopter and therefore beta tester. Two, you paid with your privacy. The anti-spyware toolkits to remove the telemetry and other stuff weren't sophisticated. Plus, Microsoft went out of their way to sabotage these.

Linux also requires reboots because of kernel upgrades. Microsoft maybe does it more, but its also due to bad programmed 3rd party apps.

Windows has its own package manager these days. Apple's App Store and Microsoft's Windows Store are nothing more than a GUI for a package manager with some Web 2.0 (or 3.0) capabilities.

Your disadvantages are fair enough, but they can all be circumvented with say O&O ShutUp or one of the many other applications which remove the spyware/bloatware/adware.

What I f* ing hate about Windows is the lack of shell scripts and the need for Powershell and CMD.exe/*.bat. I don't want to use or (re)learn that shit. Microsoft could've adopted Bash but they went with Powershell instead. Windows Subsystem for Linux is decent, as was Cygwin, but it just isn't the same as native. The same's true for WINE. So I still prefer macOS; seems to be the best of both worlds. Although terrible for gaming. You want a gaming rig for that. Which could very well run on Linux, these days, given Steam's adoption plus WINE.

Good summary though. Could use some nuances (which I did mention) but we gotta start somewhere.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#29

Post by vetinari »

Fnoord wrote: post #23
exikyut wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree that The GIMP and Inkscape are not a sight on Photochop. It's quite obvious - the former are developed by volunteer hobbyists, the latter by a paid team of engineers who have focused job titles. But that doesn't make them inferior , because user-interface consistency and ease of use are not the only metrics used in the real world to select software by.

What is better or worse should also include a cost/benefit analysis on the price of the product(s). That should include the cost of things like support, or the cost of in-house experts.

This is opening can of worms.

When we factor in things like support, we have to consider not only cost, but also metrics like its quality and performance/price. If I had a dollar for every support ticket that got ignored for months or years... For community support, that can be fine, but when you are paying maintenance, that's unforgivable.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#30

Post by ggus »

Fnoord wrote: post #26
realusername wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard of this "Windows 10" indeed but does it run on Linux ?

Hyper-V can run a full-blown Linux kernel + OS with virtually no performance loss compared to native (on recent x86-64 hardware). There's also Windows Subsystem for Linux. You can get a full-blown OS like Ubuntu or SuSE that way. Well, that is, sans Linux kernel and sans X11.

and sans virtualization options.. no vagrant machines there : (
Post reply on HN