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WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

reuters.com

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Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#131

Post by freeflight »

shakna wrote: post #96
mikeokner wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, that makes sense to me. But this seems more like "the company said it wouldn't allow anyone else to query the database" before I bought it. Now that I'm owner, do I still count as "anyone else?" I'd argue not. Edit: that's from a US perspective. Sounds like France (& the EU) put additional restrictions on how personal data may be used even after it's voluntarily provided.

> on how personal data may be used even after it's voluntarily provided. That feels wrong. The personal data was provided under a contract. Now, you can pretend you're Vader and change your deal, but people can still attack you for changing the contract to terms they have not agreed on. And so far in court, long lengthy legalese Terms & Conditions haven't always held up to scrutiny, and nor has any contract that stat…

> And so far in court, long lengthy legalese Terms & Conditions haven't always held up to scrutiny, and nor has any contract that states "we can change these terms at any time". [0]

Especially not in the EU, many ToS that are completely legal in the US wouldn't see the light of the day in the EU due to consumer protection rights.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#132

Post by debt »

It's funny because the share price isn't reflecting these trends.

As privacy laws become more strict, which seems inevitable given what's happening all across Europe, the data itself loses it's value. If the data loses it's value, having more of it, won't translate to having more value.

Facebook/Google will just have more stuff they can't use, or more stuff they'll need to try and stretch further than they did before.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#133

Post by shakna »

david-s wrote: post #104
djsumdog wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if this means EU users get less creepy specific advertising. I run uBlockOrigin so I don't see many ads, but I've heard cases of Facebook/Adobe/Google algorithms being so good that people see ads for things they've never looked up online, yet talked about out loud (leading many to believe Facebook/Instagram are capturing microphone data). As a side not, this gets into the whole "Right to be Forgotten" which…

In what fashion can it be used as a form of censorship?

I'm not entirely convinced, but the argument I've seen is:

Politician does something corrupt. Then they order takedown notices across the web, because it is about them personally.

The Right to Forget allows them to obscure their dirty deeds.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#134

Post by gradys »

RestlessMind wrote: post #99

EU is one of my best hopes when it comes to privacy and really wish they start going after tech behemoths. I have given up on US authorities doing anything to reign them in. And policies in other significant countries (eg. China) would be even worse for user privacy.

I'm torn on this. On the one hand, I agree, the EU legislates privacy to a degree that no other political entity does as far as I'm aware, but on the other hand, they often do so with poorly designed policies. As an example, I'd point to the cookie notices that appear on almost every major website, which must have absorbed, globally, many careers worth of man-hours to implement while offering virtually no real-world privacy benefits.

Maybe I'm over-indexing on one bad example? I'd love to hear more informed opinions about this.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#135

Post by freeflight »

djsumdog wrote: post #75
teekert wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is that WA always told us that they wouldn't share our data. This was a reason people signed up, you can't just "Oops we did it anyway" on so many people. At least not on People who have a government with their best interest in mind.

Did WhatsApp charge anything? I thought for contracts you needed some kind of actual dollar amount (even $1) for it to be binding? Is that very US-law specific or am I way off here?

Originally WhatsApp ran completely on a subscription model, users would pay a small fee to use the service and users were okay with that because it would mean nobody would try to commercialize their information.

Then Facebook gobbled them up, they removed the small subscription fee (not even giving an option to keep on paying it) and went: "All your data are blong to us".

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#136

Post by briandear »

vkou wrote: post #103
mikeokner wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there legal precedent for "sharing" when the only entity you're providing the data to is your owner? Presumably if I bought WhatsApp, I would legally be allowed to query some database for someone's phone number if I so chose because I now own the database.

> Presumably if I bought WhatsApp, I would legally be allowed to query some database for someone's phone number if I so chose because I now own the database. It's not your data. It's your users' data. So no, you may own the database, but you do not own the data.

I don't understand how users own their own data. That doesn't make any sense. Where does that idea come from?

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#137

Post by hartator »

edran wrote: post #42
hartator wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be nightmare if you have to comply to every laws of a country just because you have users in it.

It's not a nightmare, it's a responsibility towards the people who use your product, and the society that allows you to gain wealth from such usage. If you want to simplify the system, lobby for multiple nations to adopt a good standard, or move on.

So, are you going to report NK users to them if you host dissident contents? You have to comply to your local laws, not foreign laws.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#138

Post by briandear »

flexie wrote: post #111
mikeokner wrote: post #9

I wonder what the legal argument is behind this ruling. If one newspaper acquired another, couldn't the parent then market to the subsidiary's subscribers even if they continued to operate separately? The parent now owns everything anyway.

When doing business in the EU, Whatsapp and whatnot will have to abide by EU legislation, including EU data protection rules, EU consumer legislation and national rules on entering into and interpreting terms and conditions and other contracts. Data may be used only for the purpose it was collected and transfer to other legal entities require consent. In May 2018, the data orotection regulation ebters into force and…

They don't pay tax? [citation needed]

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#139

Post by hartator »

chaosite wrote: post #43
hartator wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be nightmare if you have to comply to every laws of a country just because you have users in it.

This isn't even a law, it's an order. Don't want to comply? Don't accept users from that country. That's the reality of a multi-national...

After all this hypocrite talk about net neutrality, it's suddenly okay to block users based on their country?

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#140

Post by hartator »

dguest wrote: post #67
hartator wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be nightmare if you have to comply to every laws of a country just because you have users in it.

What's the alternative? You comply with the laws in your country of choice?

Comply with the laws where you based at. Other countries can't enforce their laws just because you communicate with their residents.
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