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WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

reuters.com

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Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#101

Post by shakna »

gboudrias wrote: post #2

> “The only way to refuse the data transfer for “business intelligence” purpose is to uninstall the application,” the CNIL said in a statement. I mean, Facebook et al are a nightmare, but doesn't this statement apply to almost every app? Nevertheless, I'm sure Facebook is pretty annoyed right now, seeing as their main business goal seems to be "hoard all the data".

I believe with France's current laws, and the incoming EU GDPR, you must provide the opt-out as the same manner as the agreement was made.

If that means you clicked an "I agree" button, then you must be able to easily find a page where you click, "I no longer agree".

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#102

Post by cmurf »

phjesusthatguy3 wrote: post #71
teekert wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is that WA always told us that they wouldn't share our data. This was a reason people signed up, you can't just "Oops we did it anyway" on so many people. At least not on People who have a government with their best interest in mind.

Corporations are people. Can corporations lie?

Corporations are entities created by the state. They are not people, or citizens. They are made up of people who can lie on their behalf and as such corporations get the culpability whenever officers of that company lie.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#103

Post by vkou »

mikeokner wrote: post #15
teekert wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is that WA always told us that they wouldn't share our data. This was a reason people signed up, you can't just "Oops we did it anyway" on so many people. At least not on People who have a government with their best interest in mind.

Is there legal precedent for "sharing" when the only entity you're providing the data to is your owner? Presumably if I bought WhatsApp, I would legally be allowed to query some database for someone's phone number if I so chose because I now own the database.

> Presumably if I bought WhatsApp, I would legally be allowed to query some database for someone's phone number if I so chose because I now own the database.

It's not your data.

It's your users' data.

So no, you may own the database, but you do not own the data.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#104

Post by david-s »

djsumdog wrote: post #77
masklinn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If one newspaper acquired another, couldn't the parent then market to the subsidiary's subscribers even if they continued to operate separately? The parent now owns everything anyway. Not in France, personal data is collected with a specified purpose (and bullshit/overly broad "purpose" can get you sued), using said data for other purposes is illegal. You (as a company) never own personal data per-se, you are lent…

I wonder if this means EU users get less creepy specific advertising. I run uBlockOrigin so I don't see many ads, but I've heard cases of Facebook/Adobe/Google algorithms being so good that people see ads for things they've never looked up online, yet talked about out loud (leading many to believe Facebook/Instagram are capturing microphone data). As a side not, this gets into the whole "Right to be Forgotten" which…

In what fashion can it be used as a form of censorship?

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#105

Post by flexie »

djsumdog wrote: post #75
teekert wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is that WA always told us that they wouldn't share our data. This was a reason people signed up, you can't just "Oops we did it anyway" on so many people. At least not on People who have a government with their best interest in mind.

Did WhatsApp charge anything? I thought for contracts you needed some kind of actual dollar amount (even $1) for it to be binding? Is that very US-law specific or am I way off here?

The consideration thing is considered an exotic common law curiosity in continental law countries :-) Generally, an offer and an acceptance creates a binding contract inmost of Europe.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#106

Post by 24gttghh »

coliveira wrote: post #58
abritinthebay wrote: post #39

The French system for protecting personal information should be a model for the rest of the world imo. (As an Englishman it pains me to say that) A company can never really “own” your data there. It merely can be lent it for very specific purposes. Using it outside of those purposes is punishable by law and that permission can be revoked. It’s very pro-citizen.

This should be the law everywhere. The US, on the other hand, believes it is OK to provide ALL your personal information to big companies, see the debacle of Equifax that exposed data from most Americans to hackers throughout the world.

I hate to defend the credit agencies, but I believe you are referring to Equifax who had the enormous leak of "customer" data earlier this year, not Experian.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#107

Post by SkyPuncher »

pdpi wrote: post #83
djsumdog wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did WhatsApp charge anything? I thought for contracts you needed some kind of actual dollar amount (even $1) for it to be binding? Is that very US-law specific or am I way off here?

For a contract to be binding, you need consideration[1] from both parties. A contract where you give me something for nothing is not binding, we both need to be giving each other _something_. That something need not be money: A contract saying that you agree to give me your house if I give you my car would qualify. Google and Facebook extract enough value from targeting ads based on the personal information we agree…

I worked as a developer in the promotion and giveaway industry.

Consideration was always in interesting discussion by our company's general counsel when going through training.

On thing that stuck out to me was the company would always review entry criteria if it may any requirement beyond what would be commonly available to the lowest ranking member of society. This was typically considered to be a computer with internet access as it was likely to be available at a public library.

While mail has become a more accepted means of non-consideration entry, I believe there was a time where it was considered consideration. Counsel argued that mail-in entries required the submitter to own or purchase a stamp, a postcard, a writing device, and potentially an envelope for the postcard.

An "app only" contest was given extra scrutiny because it required the user to own some sort of smartphone or mobile digital device.

----

While, that was contests and promotions (in which case, they needed to avoid running an illegal lottery), I imagine a similar argument could be made for WhatsApp. WhatsApp is only available if you own a smartphone capable of downloading the app.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#108

Post by cmurf »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #72
phjesusthatguy3 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations are people. Can corporations lie?

When a corporation does it, it's called fraud. Securities fraud if it's a public company.

It's fraud in any case, it's just a matter of whether a human or a non-human entity is culpable. By shifting the liability to the corporation, it shifts the cost of wrong doing (ostensibly) from the person who commits it on behalf of the company to the company's shareholders.

Goldman Sachs used to be a partnership, not a corporation wih publicly traded shares. They most definitely took fewer risks when the partners were personally liable for wrong doing than once they became a corporation. https://hbr.org/2013/10/culture-not-leverage-made-wall-stree...

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#109

Post by mtgx »

djsumdog wrote: post #75
teekert wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is that WA always told us that they wouldn't share our data. This was a reason people signed up, you can't just "Oops we did it anyway" on so many people. At least not on People who have a government with their best interest in mind.

Did WhatsApp charge anything? I thought for contracts you needed some kind of actual dollar amount (even $1) for it to be binding? Is that very US-law specific or am I way off here?

Didn't WhatsApp used to charge $1 per year to people in the early days?

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#110

Post by shakna »

gourou wrote: post #57

the CNIL brief: https://www.cnil.fr/en/facebook-sanctioned-several-breaches-...

That seems to be an earlier case of Facebook being caught doing the wrong thing. This [0] seems to be the CNIL announcement.

[0] https://www.cnil.fr/en/data-transfer-whatsapp-facebook-cnil-...

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