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The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

theguardian.com

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Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#131

Post by dionidium »

pc86 wrote: post #97
dionidium wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a failure at root to understand how marginal tax rates work. There is an honest-to-god, widespread folk mythology about how you can actually earn less by earning more, because you'll pay a higher tax rate. You can hear this opinion expressed by people of all intelligence levels and in all professions, from fry cooks to engineers. This, in my experience, drives a lot of insane opinions about taxes.

I still remember a HS teacher insisting that because she got a raise she took less money home. A friend of mine was the son of a CPA and all but called her a liar in the middle of class.

Sadly, this is a conversation I've had several times.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#132

Post by jly »

nsnick wrote: post #20
mc32 wrote: post #6

There was an article on HN not long ago [1] about professionals leaving their jobs in record numbers to pursue life as a farmer, producing and living off the land. How do we reconcile on the one hand farmers by trade leaving and wannabe farmers wanting to join a farm life? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15771168

Farmers that are killing themselves grow commodity products. The people who are leaving corporate jobs to become farmers are wanting to farm specialty products like organic products or high end products like mushrooms, flowers, wine, or specialty cheeses. The problem is that the farmers who grow commodity crops live in areas that are not suited to growing specialty crops (the middle of the country) so they can't swit…

It's not just what they grow, but how they grow it and sell it. The soil on many mid-country farms is bad because of years of growing with chemical pesticides and fertilizers and bad practices, something that is potentially reversible with alternate growing methods.

Commodity growers on huge farms distribute their food into large grocers potentially all over the world, to be sold at the lowest possible price. They must maximize yields at any cost to make money. Specialty growers sell into farmer's markets, CSA's, etc, at a much higher cost for the goods. This is why many of them are in coastal and affluent areas, where the buyers are willing to pay considerably more for local, fresh produce that has been grown organically.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#133

Post by ringaroundthetx »

jeffdavis wrote: post #104
ringaroundthetx wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The farmers would talk about struggling, but have a brand new semi-tractor sitting in a barn unused 10 months out of the year. Don't you think that PERCEPTION is a horrible mindset? Less sympathy to people's stresses because they haven't lost their dignity. This applies to street beggars, immigrants, etc. The stuff I've heard are appalling. Formally middle class immigrants getting less empathy because they have cel…

Is it possible to criticize decisions and have empathy at the same time? Or is criticism not acceptable at all?

sure its possible

wasn't from the people I saw, typically coworkers, friends, their parents

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#134

Post by [deleted] »

danans wrote: post #93
colanderman wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumb question, as I am neither a farmer nor a businessperson, but is there a way for a farmer to set up, say, an LLC, which holds money from profitable years for use in unprofitable years, from which the farmer takes a steady salary each year?

No, because LLCs have to close their books every year and distribute any profits or losses to their members. You can't keep an untaxed rainy day fund in them. Edit: Yes, I meant distribute for taxation purposes (K1 form), not actually transfer the funds

[deleted]

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#135

Post by detaro »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #129
bluGill wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having your own semi is very important during harvest: your combine will fill up in 15 minutes. That means every 15 minutes you need to unload it. 2 combines worth of grain is as much as your can haul in a semi (because of road weight restrictions). When the farmer is harvesting they don't want to stop: every delay is a chance that a storm latter will destroy the rest of the crop. Farmers often hard hauling to a elev…

Tesla Semis owned by a coop would be killer for this use case, with charging facilities at the elevator. Very similar to the runs Tesla is going to use them for from their lithium evap pond partner in NV and the Gigafactory.

How does that solve the problem that "all the farmers" need it at the same time of year, and thus one shared one isn't enough? What makes a Tesla Semi notably better than a conventional one?

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#136

Post by Jtsummers »

bluGill wrote: post #120
gonzoflip wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not talking about a combine, I can understand the need for having your own combine during harvest. I am talking about a brand new fully optioned Peterbilt Semi-tractor, or buying a new pickup each year.

Having your own semi is very important during harvest: your combine will fill up in 15 minutes. That means every 15 minutes you need to unload it. 2 combines worth of grain is as much as your can haul in a semi (because of road weight restrictions). When the farmer is harvesting they don't want to stop: every delay is a chance that a storm latter will destroy the rest of the crop. Farmers often hard hauling to a elev…

At least for my family's farm in OK, a lot of the labor moves and takes the equipment with them. They move north to south with the season and the farm owners don't have to own as much equipment (in our case, none of us are farmers and haven't been for a few generations so a different situation). The farm manager still farms his own land, but he uses this same labor and their equipment with own a little of his own for tending during the growing season (the most labor and equipment intensive parts are harvest and planting).

Point being, the expensive equipment that is effectively being rented (with the labor in our case) isn't sitting idle most of the year. It's being used in different areas.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#137

Post by bluGill »

curtis wrote: post #33

One question I would ask: Has the average age of a farmer gone up substantially in the last couple of decades? This alone could be a major contributing factor, because the male suicide rate (at least in the U.S.) goes up with age.

Over what time? In the last few years the younger generation has been returning to the farm decreasing the age, but go back farther and the age as been getting older.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#138

Post by CydeWeys »

mikestew wrote: post #126
CydeWeys wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depreciation on a $150K tractor you don't need amounts to -$150K, for what it's worth ;) It's just some amount of that every year (with the biggest hit being in the same year, same for buying a new car).

Dude, you’re deconstructing a clever rejoinder on the topic of paying taxes. Ease up, I know how depreciation works. :-)

I literally put a smiley in my reply to indicate tone, and yet you still somehow miscontrued it. Take your own advice :D

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#139

Post by dionidium »

nsxwolf wrote: post #87
dionidium wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When most people bring up tax deductions in casual settings it's pretty obvious pretty quickly that they don't really know what a tax deduction is. And the odds quickly approach 1 if they use the phrase "write-off."

It seems to be the common understanding among many that a "write off" of a business expense like a laptop or something means you get that thing for free. I wonder if this is the result of most people taking the standard deduction instead of itemizing at tax time.

Yes. I know lots of folks living in cheap Midwestern housing who think they're getting a great deal on the mortgage interest rate deduction, but who almost certainly have deductions at or below the standard amount.

I'd venture that a lot of people are typing all this info into their tax software, which summarily throws it all away without them really understanding that that's what's happening.

Regular folks just do not get this stuff and it's silly that we have such a complicated system.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#140

Post by EdSharkey »

baldfat wrote: post #65

> but the most extreme anti-government/anti-tax ideologies. It's the very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face. That sadly isn't an extreme ideologies. Every wonder why Republicans are all for tax cuts? Its the simple idea that if the Government has less money it must be smaller. So lower the taxes of the rich and corporations = smaller government. This is why we have problems all the time with tax…

I've always thought of "trickle down economics" as an overly-rosy way of saying that we'll "grow our way out of the hole". Nevermind the 'conservatives' will never stop digging, will never cut spending, even occasionally spinning up another entitlement of their own, and only occasionally toss their people a bone by slowing existing programs' growth rate.

I don't think Reagan thought of government size as being a problem since he grew it massively. I think he did rebel against bureaucracies and waste/fraud/abuse, at least rhetorically. Ultimately, the guy was a deal-maker, and he'd happily grow the government (with military at the forefront) if he could get his stimulative tax cuts.

> Though I love throwing Reagan into the face of today's "Conservatives" they really would HATE Reagan today and his liberal ways.

He was as liberal as JFK was, which is to say Reagan was your classic "govt can do some good here"-liberal. Today's true "liberals" are cultural marxists, which ultimately makes them toxic, hence their precipitous decline recently. If the libs could drop the culture war stuff and focus on labor issues and positive right-sized governing, they'd shoot back to popularity. Nothing will improve while power comes chiefly from dividing people and the hatred continues to flow.

Reagan was a moral man and he was a good orator, making him a fine spokesman for America and raising our stock worldwide. That he could reassure and comfort people was the best part about him; the rest of Reagan was muddled goods and bads.

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