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The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

theguardian.com

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Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#81

Post by tdeck »

DannyB2 wrote: post #60
ravingraven wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that such a strategy is not optimal but it is not quite how you describe it to be. In the mind of the farmer: * $150,000 tractor: something that has value (not easy to calculate, but a $150k tractor has a value above zero, even if not brand new) and utility. * $30,000 to the IRS: money that I will never see again. Literally thrown away money. Option number 1 is very tempting.

I wonder how they see taxes as thrown away? Yes, government is inefficient. And corrupt. But you do need roads. And bridges. And law enforcement. And even military protection, even if it seems far away and remote from your farm.

Not to mention $20 billion a year in farm subsidies.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#82

Post by xojp123 »

InvisibleCities wrote: post #79
colanderman wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumb question, as I am neither a farmer nor a businessperson, but is there a way for a farmer to set up, say, an LLC, which holds money from profitable years for use in unprofitable years, from which the farmer takes a steady salary each year?

Wouldn't that just make the overall tax burden worse? You'd have to pay corporate taxes on the farm profits, then pay income taxes on the salary.

I don't think so. I think LLC's allow one to pass through profits without double taxation. C corps, I believe, are the type that suffer from double taxation. Correct me if I am wrong though.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#83

Post by Tade0 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #7

Local farm services guy had this to say: "Used to buy truckloads of fertilizer, then the coop would buy train car loads and undercut us. So we bought a train car - they bought a train. We bought a train - they bought a barge. The margins are disappearing entirely" Almost everybody is being squeezed out by 'economies of scale'. And its going to get worse, when we start making simple foodstuffs electrically (starch, su…

> when we start making simple foodstuffs electrically (starch, sugar, protein).

Interesting. Do you happen to know what's the state of research on this?

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#84

Post by ktta »

1001101 wrote: post #3
simlevesque wrote: post #2

The same thing happens in Canada.

and India (as mentioned in the article) [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmers%27_suicides_in_India

If anyone was wondering, the farmer death per day is 33.6 per day in India (it was mentioned as a single number since 1995).

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#85

Post by scarmig »

Cuuugi wrote: post #76
DannyB2 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how they see taxes as thrown away? Yes, government is inefficient. And corrupt. But you do need roads. And bridges. And law enforcement. And even military protection, even if it seems far away and remote from your farm.

One common feeling (i am from a farming community in Canada) is that tax revenue tends to get siphoned to urban areas. Politicians focus on bigger voting blocks, while rural communities (in their mind) pay for those promises.

I'm sure that is a common feeling. And it probably varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

But in the USA, just as coastal areas subsidize inland areas, typically urban areas within a state subsidize the rural areas. Definitely true of California counties, and I'd be very surprised if this wasn't true of any particular state.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#86

Post by lkjasdkjdjf »

simplicio wrote: post #43
dictum wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doesn't that just boil down to "people who want to do x and have money can end up in a better spot than people who inherited x and have less money?" Is that not a valid criticism?

I mean, inheriting a farm is inheriting a lot of money. Were family farmers perfectly rational economic actors, they'd presumably sell their inherited farm and use the proceeds to buy one more suited to the newer, locally grown, organic type farms that are more insulated from the economies of scale that are driving them out of business. But obviously people aren't such rational actors, and farmers have emotional atta…

One issue at least in my own state that has eliminated many family farms is the inheritance tax rate judges the value of the land on its highest possible economic value of use. This means getting taxed on subdividing the entire property and developing it not taxed on the value of the land if kept as a farm. This lead to every generational change over of a family farm to generally have to halve the size of the farm and then have a new development of NIMBY's surrounding them steadily. The farm lobby in my state has been pushing a bill to base the inheritance tax on the farm value of the land if the land is kept in production as a working farm for 15 years following payment.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#87

Post by nsxwolf »

dionidium wrote: post #78
nsxwolf wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people who do the same thing with charitable donations. They donate to an organization because they "need the tax deduction". Despite that they'd have more money in their pocket if they just didn't make the donation in the first place.

When most people bring up tax deductions in casual settings it's pretty obvious pretty quickly that they don't really know what a tax deduction is. And the odds quickly approach 1 if they use the phrase "write-off."

It seems to be the common understanding among many that a "write off" of a business expense like a laptop or something means you get that thing for free.

I wonder if this is the result of most people taking the standard deduction instead of itemizing at tax time.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#88

Post by danans »

InvisibleCities wrote: post #79
colanderman wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumb question, as I am neither a farmer nor a businessperson, but is there a way for a farmer to set up, say, an LLC, which holds money from profitable years for use in unprofitable years, from which the farmer takes a steady salary each year?

Wouldn't that just make the overall tax burden worse? You'd have to pay corporate taxes on the farm profits, then pay income taxes on the salary.

An LLC doesn't pay corporate taxes. It just passes profits or losses to shareholders proportionally and are taxed at the individual level.

https://www.sba.gov/blogs/6-things-you-need-know-about-your-...

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#89

Post by pc86 »

baldfat wrote: post #65

> but the most extreme anti-government/anti-tax ideologies. It's the very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face. That sadly isn't an extreme ideologies. Every wonder why Republicans are all for tax cuts? Its the simple idea that if the Government has less money it must be smaller. So lower the taxes of the rich and corporations = smaller government. This is why we have problems all the time with tax…

I am generally in favor of a smaller national government and my default position on a tax cut is positive until proven otherwise, yet I still understand how progressive tax structures work. I have many friends and associates who would be considered conservative even among other Republicans, and probably have inconceivably conservative viewpoints by most of HN's standards. And I don't think any of them would spend $150k just to keep $30k out of the government's hands. So yes I think if you're going to hurt yourself financially to make some token gesture toward the government that won't even show up on a budget spreadsheet because it's so small, that's either an extreme ideological viewpoint or you don't know how taxes work. "Never ascribe to malice" and all that.

And individual taxes aside, corporate taxes should absolutely be lower, they're among the highest in the world.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#90

Post by avs733 »

ravingraven wrote: post #52
pc86 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if anything it can be traced to a fundamental misunderstanding about how fractions work (and less glibly, basic personal finance). Choosing to spend $150,000 on things you objectively do not need in order to not have to write a $30,000 check to the IRS and put $120,000 in the bank for next year is not a rational decision for all but the most extreme anti-government/anti-tax ideologies. It's the very definitio…

I agree with you that such a strategy is not optimal but it is not quite how you describe it to be. In the mind of the farmer: * $150,000 tractor: something that has value (not easy to calculate, but a $150k tractor has a value above zero, even if not brand new) and utility. * $30,000 to the IRS: money that I will never see again. Literally thrown away money. Option number 1 is very tempting.

The problem with that is that its only a $150,000 tractor until you drive it off the lot. I would be if the day after you bought it you are lucky if it is a $120,000 tractor.

Averseness to government is taxation is so engrained in some country it is almost genetic...and it leads to utterly bad thinking by individuals.

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