I'll guess: depression, isolation, uncertainty, one paycheck a year (when the harvest comes in), physical danger and health risks.
The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans
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Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Doesn't that just boil down to "people who want to do x and have money can end up in a better spot than people who inherited x and have less money?" Is that not a valid criticism?
I mean, inheriting a farm is inheriting a lot of money. Were family farmers perfectly rational economic actors, they'd presumably sell their inherited farm and use the proceeds to buy one more suited to the newer, locally grown, organic type farms that are more insulated from the economies of scale that are driving them out of business. But obviously people aren't such rational actors, and farmers have emotional atta…
Selling a farm isn't like selling a house, you can go years with no offers.
Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
The first thing I learned when I started working life in a store was: "We do not compete by undercutting the competition. That will kill us both."
But, corn is corn. There's no winning in a commodity market. And grain is the classic commodity.
You can win in a commodity market by changing the commodity, or by cornering the commodity in some manner (whether distribution, demand + supply angles, or supply).
OPEC for example exists to create such an atmosphere for its members.
DeBeers managed to keep the price of not-very-scarce diamond comically inflated for many decades.
Monsanto is going to use CRISPR to create its own unique variations of crops (changing the commodity).
Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans
#74Local farm services guy had this to say: "Used to buy truckloads of fertilizer, then the coop would buy train car loads and undercut us. So we bought a train car - they bought a train. We bought a train - they bought a barge. The margins are disappearing entirely" Almost everybody is being squeezed out by 'economies of scale'. And its going to get worse, when we start making simple foodstuffs electrically (starch, su…
This happens any time your only differentiator is price. The small guy is never going to be able to compete with a larger company on only price. Never make your differentiator "we're cheaper"! It's business 101.
Unless that’s a game you can win - see Amazon.
Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans
#75I have family that farms in Iowa and I also worked in the agriculture industry there for a while after leaving the military. One thing that increases the stress on the farmers is the way they avoid income taxes at all costs so they rarely save any of the profits from good years to help them float during the bad years. This is all anecdotal but I have personally talked with several farmers that would rather buy new eq…
Dumb question, as I am neither a farmer nor a businessperson, but is there a way for a farmer to set up, say, an LLC, which holds money from profitable years for use in unprofitable years, from which the farmer takes a steady salary each year?
Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with you that such a strategy is not optimal but it is not quite how you describe it to be. In the mind of the farmer: * $150,000 tractor: something that has value (not easy to calculate, but a $150k tractor has a value above zero, even if not brand new) and utility. * $30,000 to the IRS: money that I will never see again. Literally thrown away money. Option number 1 is very tempting.
I wonder how they see taxes as thrown away? Yes, government is inefficient. And corrupt. But you do need roads. And bridges. And law enforcement. And even military protection, even if it seems far away and remote from your farm.
One common feeling (i am from a farming community in Canada) is that tax revenue tends to get siphoned to urban areas.
Politicians focus on bigger voting blocks, while rural communities (in their mind) pay for those promises.
Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans
#77The amazing thing is the median age of farmers in the USA is ~56. In the next ten years over half are retire-able. Who is going to take over? Corporations or the current immigrant workers? Its a huge change for most of the country.
Farming will do what it has been doing for two centuries in the US: leap forward in automation. The technology is all primed to cause an extraordinary increase in productivity.
Meanwhile the US population growth is trending toward zero.
Odds are, the US can lose half its farmers over the next 30 years and still increase net food production to match very modest population growth.
Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with you that such a strategy is not optimal but it is not quite how you describe it to be. In the mind of the farmer: * $150,000 tractor: something that has value (not easy to calculate, but a $150k tractor has a value above zero, even if not brand new) and utility. * $30,000 to the IRS: money that I will never see again. Literally thrown away money. Option number 1 is very tempting.
I know people who do the same thing with charitable donations. They donate to an organization because they "need the tax deduction". Despite that they'd have more money in their pocket if they just didn't make the donation in the first place.
When most people bring up tax deductions in casual settings it's pretty obvious pretty quickly that they don't really know what a tax deduction is. And the odds quickly approach 1 if they use the phrase "write-off."
Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans
#79I have family that farms in Iowa and I also worked in the agriculture industry there for a while after leaving the military. One thing that increases the stress on the farmers is the way they avoid income taxes at all costs so they rarely save any of the profits from good years to help them float during the bad years. This is all anecdotal but I have personally talked with several farmers that would rather buy new eq…
Dumb question, as I am neither a farmer nor a businessperson, but is there a way for a farmer to set up, say, an LLC, which holds money from profitable years for use in unprofitable years, from which the farmer takes a steady salary each year?
Wouldn't that just make the overall tax burden worse? You'd have to pay corporate taxes on the farm profits, then pay income taxes on the salary.
Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is this for philosophical reasons about taxes and government? Or is it just a big chunk of money they're trying to save?
I think if anything it can be traced to a fundamental misunderstanding about how fractions work (and less glibly, basic personal finance). Choosing to spend $150,000 on things you objectively do not need in order to not have to write a $30,000 check to the IRS and put $120,000 in the bank for next year is not a rational decision for all but the most extreme anti-government/anti-tax ideologies. It's the very definitio…
I think it's a failure at root to understand how marginal tax rates work. There is an honest-to-god, widespread folk mythology about how you can actually earn less by earning more, because you'll pay a higher tax rate. You can hear this opinion expressed by people of all intelligence levels and in all professions, from fry cooks to engineers.
This, in my experience, drives a lot of insane opinions about taxes.