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Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

theguardian.com

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Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#351

Post by galobtter »

wildmusings wrote: post #340

Drug use is rising in Portugal. https://www.npr.org/2011/01/20/133086356/Mixed-Results-For-P... The Guardian skirts around the issue with some weasley phrasing “ ensuing years saw dramatic drops in problematic drug use ”. Problematic according to whom? Being a high functioning addict who claims to be fine does not mean that you don’t have a serious problem that is damaging your relationships and potential. How about…

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1464837 "drug-related pathologies — such as sexually transmitted diseases and deaths due to drug usage — have decreased dramatically. Drug policy experts attribute those positive trends to the enhanced ability of the Portuguese government to offer treatment programs to its citizens — enhancements made possible, for numerous reasons, by decriminalization." from the guardian article "Portugal has seen dramatic drops in overdoses, HIV infection and drug-related crime." Problematic according to people dieing. Isn't getting the number of people dieing and getting diseases decreasing far more important than a rise in drug use?

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#352

Post by Xylakant »

Banthum wrote: post #227
rusk wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there may be something to this. Though perhaps a better term than "rebuttal" is "backlash". The conservative backlash has long been mooted by social commentators. It's likely a large cohort of Trumps voters were those who were incensed by "central government interfering in local affairs", in particular the case of Kim Davis springs to mind. Never mind that Trump doesn't exactly embody conservatism, I'd imagin…

"I like to think that the current wave of high-profile sexual impropriety cases is similarly a sparked by the more socially liberal sectors of society against the misogyny embodied by Trump and the socially conservative segments." What? Pretty much every harasser and rapist revealed recently has been a moderate-to-active liberal. Weinstein himself gave generously to Hillary. How do you spin this as righteous leftists…

> Pretty much every harasser and rapist revealed recently has been a moderate-to-active liberal. Weinstein himself gave generously to Hillary.

That's a pretty tough statement to make when the GOP and Trump just endorsed Roy Moore for the senate race in Alabama because they need the seat.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#353

Post by jowsie »

apexalpha wrote: post #129
justrobert wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except anyone can buy fent online easily. Far more dangerous for anyone who is near those that buy it.

Except people don't here.

Then how is it getting cut into all the heroin being sold in the states? Someone must be buying it ...

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#354

Post by dingdingdang »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #50

This scenario doesn't just happen with drug policy, but with practically any divisive policy discussion. People will debate something that is done elsewhere, and ignore completely that it's done elsewhere. Gay marriage is a prime example, as it's something that has been legalised in a lot of countries now. Every time a country goes through the process of debating whether to legalise gay marriage, there's a bunch of p…

The risk with this sort of meta-discussion is that it drowns the original question about drug policy in an ocean of other relevant questions. I think it would be more interesting to line up the countries that are currently close to trying out a similar policy to Portugal and finding ways to support the movement or at least discuss the particular, national, issues faced.

There's slightly older (2009) systemic review of Portugal's drug policy and it's effects available at: https://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/drug-decrimina... which is also interesting and has fair bit of stats to back the discussion up with.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#355

Post by jowsie »

gozur88 wrote: post #271

I'm not a big fan of Portugal's drug policy. You can buy drugs and take drugs, but not deal them? So you still have much of the crime associated with distribution. I'd like to see drug use legalized (not "decriminalized") in the US, and I'd also like to see distribution handled by regulated retailers, so potency and quality are uniform.

The primary purpose isn't to fight organised crime. It's to create treatment opportunities for the people using the drugs.

Decrease the demand and the rest of the system will decrease on its own.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#356

Post by mattbrewsbytes »

saladeen wrote: post #321
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recent study: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/2017/10/19/states-wi... The Australia and British laws and results are evidence that is plain in front of you. Those are humans on a different piece of land on our planet that on a whole have less gun violence occurring because there are less guns. You can talk about culture, how it wouldn't work, etc. but that is the exact point the parent comment is making. It w…

GP asked about relation of gun laws vs death numbers. You are pretending to answer that, but you weasel in the change from 'general violence' to 'gun violence'. Of course if guns are more easily available, there will be more gun violence, but that's not what GP asked.

I believe the less deaths part is really meant as gun deaths.

Do you honestly think that he wants information about less guns leading to lower cardiac arrests? Or perhaps less motor vehicle accidents involving death?

There is only one type of death that is in context in a discussion about firearms, death caused by firearms.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#357

Post by angry_octet »

tremon wrote: post #286
angry_octet wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a batshit crazy conspiracy theory comment. The CIA gets plenty of money in the black budget and full congressional approval. The problem isn't CIA accountability, their actions are the actions of the US Govt, but it is rare for the US Govt to suffer repercussions that the American people understand as stemming from the actions of its Govt.

it is rare for the US Govt to suffer repercussions that the American people understand as stemming from the actions of its Govt. Well, there's the current POTUS...

I think the fact that he enjoys continued support (in Congress# and among those who voted for him) amply demonstrates that many citizens do not comprehend the massive reduction in influence the US has suffered in only a year.

# Call your representative.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#358

Post by Angostura »

Banthum wrote: post #223
jonathanstrange wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 2 cent (classical armchair analysis): It seems to me that some of these discussions are mostly dominated by irrationality. This is particularly recognizable in the US, but also occurs in Europe to a degree that varies from topic to topic and country to country. I believe there are two major factors at play. First, certain topics concern taboos that are still strong even in secularized societies. To these belong an…

>most problems could be solved by experts Implicit here is that when you say "experts", you mean people who share your terminal values and general way of thinking. Your post makes it seem like you're having trouble stepping out of your value system to consider opposing views. Consider your quote here: "certain topics concern taboos that are still strong even in secularized societies. To these belong anything concerni…

> secular (e.g. leftist)

The two are nowhere near synonymous.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#359

Post by dalbasal »

scotty79 wrote: post #338
dalbasal wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't live in the US, but I'm skeptical. There are a lot of places where civilian gun ownership causes problems, gun crime, etc. Some of the places where it does not cause big problems (eg Switzerland) have liberal gun laws and high ownership rates. There are examples where widespread gun ownership/availability causes exactly the kinds of is "problems" that (according to some) the American founders intended it to c…

> the American founders intended it to cause. Basically, armed revolutions. So ... After all the history that passed since then, after all the civil wars and armed revolutions do we still believe they are good idea? I guess US military thinks so after supporting so many in the middle east. Europe I think has different take on the subject.

That is certainly debatable. Americans seem used to the idea, but to the uninitiated the idea of building armed insurrection into the governing system seems pretty mad.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#360

Post by mantas »

galobtter wrote: post #334
mantas wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Europe? Guns are allowed, although strictly regulated, and there're very few homicides.

He's saying that Europe has strict gun control laws and thus less homicides

But it's not that strict. Not ex-convict, no mental issues history - bam you can buy a gun.

What gun you can buy is different story. Anything more powerful than a pistol or hunting riffle is more or less no-go.

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