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Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

theguardian.com

41–50 of 545 posts

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#41
Portugal’s policy is deeply flawed because it does not legalize the sale of all drugs, only the consumption.

When selling is legal is when organized crime leaves the picture, taxes can be collected, product is clean and measured and of quality.

Both sides of the equation are important to legalize, doing one without the other means huge problems remain.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#42
post #23

One thing that people aren't considering is that we have legalization experiments within the United States, and we have seen an uptick in marijuana usage[1]. This uptick has been benign because its been limited to Marijuana. I think that given our culture (one that I believe is potentially universal, but I can not speak to universality) has a tendency toward over consumption, its not clear to me that legalization of…

> we have seen an uptick in marijuana usage

Isn't that a desirable thing from a government standpoint? More tax income from legal sales? The point to legalize something is that you put some controls in place to know where and how, and at what quality it's being sold, not to have its consumption decrease.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#43
post #32

Because the US prison industry policy is working as desired.

That doesn't explain the rest of the world.

The US uses a couple tools to make US drug policy essentially world drug policy. Mainly trade agreements, military agreements(weapon sales and defense agreements), and economic aid.

We attach riders to these agreements which make adoption of US drug law a condition of the deal.

This is in first world countries. In the second and third world countries (the middle east and south america, and to a lesser but not negligible extent Africa) we just enforce our laws by force with or without permission.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#44

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -Upton Sinclair That's about it really. There are a whole lot of people across the world whose salaries depend on an unending drug war.

That thought doesn't really capture the reason. It applies in some circumstances but not this one. In a republic, people are only paid to enforce restrictive drug policy because the people want them to. Most people look at the issue in simple terms. "Drugs are bad, so keep them away from people". Legalization is a counterintuitive way to lower incidence of use and addiction, it will take a lot to convince people it i…

This. We saw same thing with "three strikes" in CA and mandatory sentencing in the US in general --and lest anyone forget, this was supported by the Clintons and Gores in the 90s (if you want to recall the wild extremes, just look into the Gores and the PMRC[1] and metal=satanic, etc.)

So in that sense it wasn't Rs vs Ds, it was rather Ds & Rs pushing strong for "law and order" --which was likely precipitated by the high crime rates of the 80s and early 90s as well as shoddy studies[2] about criminality.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Music_Resource_Center

[2]http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/03/very-brief-his...

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#45

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -Upton Sinclair That's about it really. There are a whole lot of people across the world whose salaries depend on an unending drug war.

That thought doesn't really capture the reason. It applies in some circumstances but not this one. In a republic, people are only paid to enforce restrictive drug policy because the people want them to. Most people look at the issue in simple terms. "Drugs are bad, so keep them away from people". Legalization is a counterintuitive way to lower incidence of use and addiction, it will take a lot to convince people it i…

Do you have any numbers that prove the general public wants harsh drug laws to be enforced in the US (or anywhere)? As a counter example: the last few major elections for marijuana legalization have all gone overwhelming in support of legalization.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#47

>Portugal’s remarkable recovery, and the fact that it has held steady through several changes in government – including conservative leaders who would have preferred to return to the US-style war on drugs – could not have happened without an enormous cultural shift, and a change in how the country viewed drugs, addiction – and itself. In many ways, the law was merely a reflection of transformations that were already…

Also, think of the extra mental effort to find ways to incarcerate minorities and the lower class! We can't have our justice system burning out their brains.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#48
post #23

One thing that people aren't considering is that we have legalization experiments within the United States, and we have seen an uptick in marijuana usage[1]. This uptick has been benign because its been limited to Marijuana. I think that given our culture (one that I believe is potentially universal, but I can not speak to universality) has a tendency toward over consumption, its not clear to me that legalization of…

Where does the assumption come from that the idea is to decrease usage? I would expect drug usage to increase when legalized.

I would expect that for marijuana usage would increase. I do have my doubts we would suddenly see a rapid spike in meth usage.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#49

Portugal’s policy is deeply flawed because it does not legalize the sale of all drugs, only the consumption. When selling is legal is when organized crime leaves the picture, taxes can be collected, product is clean and measured and of quality. Both sides of the equation are important to legalize, doing one without the other means huge problems remain.

I don't think that something as harmful as heroin should be legal to sell, even in a taxed and regulated scenario.

Other options that, in my amateur opinion, would be better, would be to more heavily penalise adultered drugs, or to have pharmacies supply, with a prescription, addictive drugs, but only to addicts. The latter idea is basically an extension of safe injection clinics.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#50
This scenario doesn't just happen with drug policy, but with practically any divisive policy discussion.

People will debate something that is done elsewhere, and ignore completely that it's done elsewhere.

Gay marriage is a prime example, as it's something that has been legalised in a lot of countries now. Every time a country goes through the process of debating whether to legalise gay marriage, there's a bunch of people that say it's going to cause the corruption of society, or ruin the sanctity of marriage, or cause God to punish us.

However, legalising gay marriage in other countries hasn't caused the sky to fall. But anti-gay marriage people conveniently ignore this.

The same wilful ignorance of existing examples is also applied to Universal Healthcare, drug laws, minimum wages (for either raising or lowering/removing), criminal justice, firearms, and education.

Obviously countries are all different, but the general ideas are the same. For example, it's fairly well established that the less guns there are, the less gun crime there is, however, an Australia or British-style "ban handguns and buy them back off owners" isn't going to work in America. But the same principle applies, less handguns = less deaths.

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