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Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

theguardian.com

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Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#311

Post by wereHamster »

dalbasal wrote: post #284
scotty79 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which to compare to? Like any-friggin-one! You had to compare to bottom of the barrel to find a country that has the worse situation with guns than US.

I don't live in the US, but I'm skeptical. There are a lot of places where civilian gun ownership causes problems, gun crime, etc. Some of the places where it does not cause big problems (eg Switzerland) have liberal gun laws and high ownership rates. There are examples where widespread gun ownership/availability causes exactly the kinds of is "problems" that (according to some) the American founders intended it to c…

> Some of the places where it does not cause big problems (eg Switzerland) have liberal gun laws and high ownership rates.

So you don't consider suicides to be a 'big problem', eh? https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzerland-s-troubling-record-...

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#312

Post by berbec »

angry_octet wrote: post #106
berbec wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do believe you've hit the nail on the head there. It seems one of the big initial reasons for calling cannibis marijuana and criminalization was part of racist legislation against Hispanics. 'Numerous accounts say that "marijuana" came into popular usage in the U.S. in the early 20th century because anti-cannabis factions wanted to underscore the drug's "Mexican-ness."' [1] 1: https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitc…

Exactly. Its dog whistle politics, portraying Hispanic and African American people as the major source of drug crime.

They are the major source of drug crime. We make sure to arrest more minorities for drug offences, therefore they must be the source. Ignore any spurious "facts" that show drug use and incarceration rates don't match! It must be the brown people.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#313

Post by knolan »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #50

This scenario doesn't just happen with drug policy, but with practically any divisive policy discussion. People will debate something that is done elsewhere, and ignore completely that it's done elsewhere. Gay marriage is a prime example, as it's something that has been legalised in a lot of countries now. Every time a country goes through the process of debating whether to legalise gay marriage, there's a bunch of p…

Not only do they ignore it, they lie.

https://www.skepticink.com/humanisticas/2013/03/23/is-the-io...

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#314

Post by vertex-four »

haggy wrote: post #293
toomanybeersies wrote: post #50

This scenario doesn't just happen with drug policy, but with practically any divisive policy discussion. People will debate something that is done elsewhere, and ignore completely that it's done elsewhere. Gay marriage is a prime example, as it's something that has been legalised in a lot of countries now. Every time a country goes through the process of debating whether to legalise gay marriage, there's a bunch of p…

I would love to see hard statistical evidence that less guns = less deaths. The problem with your hypothesis (because without proof, that's all that your comment is) is that less guns in the hands of innocent people is a recipe for disaster. I live in the US and we see the exact opposite of what you claim. We typically see higher death rates of innocent people in states with very strict gun regulation (Chicago for ex…

States with strict gun regulation primarily have it because of violence that already existed prior to regulation, whether in the form of gang problems, terrorism, or otherwise. You don't call for regulation of something that's not a problem - if nobody ever got killed by a gun, nobody would ever have thought to regulate them.

The question is why Chicago has problems with organised violence and other places don't to the same degree. I think if you look into it, the reasons are significantly more complex than "one place has more legal guns" - the data for that hypothesis doesn't make sense when plotted on a chart.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#315

Post by wslh »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #191
toomanybeersies wrote: post #50

This scenario doesn't just happen with drug policy, but with practically any divisive policy discussion. People will debate something that is done elsewhere, and ignore completely that it's done elsewhere. Gay marriage is a prime example, as it's something that has been legalised in a lot of countries now. Every time a country goes through the process of debating whether to legalise gay marriage, there's a bunch of p…

My 2 cent (classical armchair analysis): It seems to me that some of these discussions are mostly dominated by irrationality. This is particularly recognizable in the US, but also occurs in Europe to a degree that varies from topic to topic and country to country. I believe there are two major factors at play. First, certain topics concern taboos that are still strong even in secularized societies. To these belong an…

> It seems to me that some of these discussions are mostly dominated by irrationality.

I have another theory: people are very conservative and rational (with all its limitations) at the society level, doesn't matter if they came from the left or right, deep changes in society have unexpected consequences. It didn't happen with same marriage laws but can happen in many other sectors.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#316

Post by mhalle »

andai wrote: post #302
haggy wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see hard statistical evidence that less guns = less deaths. The problem with your hypothesis (because without proof, that's all that your comment is) is that less guns in the hands of innocent people is a recipe for disaster. I live in the US and we see the exact opposite of what you claim. We typically see higher death rates of innocent people in states with very strict gun regulation (Chicago for ex…

I recently learned that James Holmes, who committed the Aurora cinema mass shooting, drove an additional distance to get to the only theater in the area where customers weren't allowed to have firearms, the only place where law-abiding citizens weren't allowed to defend themselves.

James Holmes was mentally ill, stopped his therapy, and wrote journals filled with details about how he was going to kill people.

His perception of reality, his interpretation of threats, and what drove his motivations were are an exceptionally poor basis for establishing public gun policy.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#317

Post by d4rti »

vertex-four wrote: post #269
yAnonymous wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there's a bunch of people that say it's going to cause the corruption of society Well, just look at the US. Political correctness is getting totally out of hand and the same is happening more and more in European countries. Changing traditions causes a lot of entitlement in people who also feel that they should get a special treatment and it seems that there's no end to it. In a democratic society, entitlement from…

Sorry mate, marriage isn't just religious. It's also societal, and Governmental. Many, many people get married outside of church, and for entirely nonreligious reasons - do you speak out against those as well as much as you do marriage between people of the same sex? What about people of a different religion getting married against your religion's rules? By the way - last time I looked into this, marriage predates or…

Paul thinks Christians shouldn't marry http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/marriage.html

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#318

Post by saladeen »

rusk wrote: post #228
Banthum wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I like to think that the current wave of high-profile sexual impropriety cases is similarly a sparked by the more socially liberal sectors of society against the misogyny embodied by Trump and the socially conservative segments." What? Pretty much every harasser and rapist revealed recently has been a moderate-to-active liberal. Weinstein himself gave generously to Hillary. How do you spin this as righteous leftists…

Yeah that's the beauty of it. It's the left getting their house in order before they go for the right. Also, I never said "left" and "right", or anything to do with political allegiances. These topics transcend political identity.

> These topics transcend political identity.

Yup, that's why you had to go with 'hurrrrr Trump!'

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#319

Post by yAnonymous »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #83
briandear wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any citation on fewer handguns, fewer deaths? Violent crime actually increased in the UK after they banned guns despite near simultaneous expansion of police funding. These issues aren’t as simple as you might imply. The demographics of Sweden are different than those of Chicago or Matamoros. Conroe, Texas has very high gun ownership and very low violent crime. New York has very low gun ownership and relatively low v…

Here's a study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3828709/ > Gun ownership was a significant predictor of firearm homicide rates (incidence rate ratio = 1.009; 95% confidence interval = 1.004, 1.014). This model indicated that for each percentage point increase in gun ownership, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9%. Firearms ownership rate doesn't correlate directly to firearms crime rates, but the…

Switzerland is proof that gun ownership and homicides are not necessarily related. Education and intelligence are probably the main factors here. So if there is a measurable relation between the two, it says more about the sad state of the society where the tests were conducted.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#320

Post by lr4444lr »

Retric wrote: post #248
Banthum wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>most problems could be solved by experts Implicit here is that when you say "experts", you mean people who share your terminal values and general way of thinking. Your post makes it seem like you're having trouble stepping out of your value system to consider opposing views. Consider your quote here: "certain topics concern taboos that are still strong even in secularized societies. To these belong anything concerni…

Technocracy implies the people in power are experts. That has never and likely will never happen. People gain power by being good at politics and or inheriting it. Neither of those measures technical skill. At most you can look at countries who listen to relevant experts, which very much includes the United States. Though again on a sliding scale and always secondary to maintaining power for the in groups. Really if…

Technocracy implies a belief that a sophisticated and well-enforced set of top-down policies - which aren't tied to any other vague elements of leadership or political maneuvering - are the best way to rule societies. Not that the people at the top themselves have the know-how to craft and execute them. Just as one can be a AGW proponent by trusting scientists without knowing how to read climatological data or sequester even a single cc of carbon dioxide.
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