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I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

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Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#311

Post by samirillian »

ImSkeptical wrote: post #301
samirillian wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it's effect. Check out the verb section. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/effect But, once again, nice side ad hominem. Keep 'em coming. -edit: Here's the thing, I'm a dude, and I have worked construction and agricultural jobs. I'm not pissed because I personally feel attacked. I'm pissed because I consider HN one of the most intellectually-honest fora online, but whenever gender politics comes up, the preten…

The "verb" section has two definitions for effect. >1. To make or bring about; to implement. >2. Misspelling of affect. I believe the second one is the relevant definition here. Compare that to google's verb definition of affect: >1. pretend to have or feel (something). >2. use, wear, or assume (something) pretentiously or so as to make an impression on others. Which seems a much more natural fit for your usage. I do…

Well, I'll be damned. You are right about the affect/effect thing.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#312

Post by convolvatron »

johnwheeler wrote: post #96
tzahola wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I was able to work on only greenfield projects with minimal oversight I'm pretty sure those enterprise CMSes started out like this too...

What does that have to do with anything?

I think thats an important point. As someone on the back end of a career in software I look back at all the projects I was proud of and thought I crafted well, and in the end they turned out just like all the other large unmaintainable swamps that everyone complains about.

Not completely clear about this, but the industry seems structured in such a way that (most) everything ends up being a horrifying mess of hacks over time. For any codebase, you can see it fall over the cliff. Poorly chosen compromises are made. People lose track of whats going on. A simple joy with boundless possibilities turns into a pointless daily slog. A rewrite would be too expensive and risky. An incremental refactoring too unjustifiable. The passionate people leave, and the interns are left running the asylum, hating every minute.

I don't know what the answer is, but no one seems to want greenfield development anymore, probably for good reason. The prospect of picking up someone else rotten excreta is pretty unappealing.

So yes, I think its salient to point out that that terrible bloated CMS you're stuck trying to mush into shape was once someones bright and shining future.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#313

Post by Chris2048 »

jorgemf wrote: post #310
Chris2048 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only offer a guess at what dang thought was a personal attack, but I can opine on what is a personal attack independently. There are different contexts in which different levels of evidence or backing might be supplied, but the first thing I noted is that you don't explain why the things you mention are relevant. "That is not why women earn 20% less than men", regardless of if it is true or false is clearly rel…

> why is what someone "sounds like" relevant? Because we live in a world where women are treated as less important/intelligent than men. And we must try not to promote that stereotype with lies. > Claims about a population of people, brought up in a relevant context is not disrespectful So things like "people is stupid", "most people here are male chauvinist", are ok to say? The context is that the author of the arti…

> Because we live in a world..

We live in a world consisting of different, distinct societies and community groups. In some of those groups "women are treated as less important/intelligent than me"; But this is not true of all groups - so whose norms do we assume in online conversation?

> we must try not to promote that stereotype with lies

There is a difference between "sounds like" and "is". If you believe a lie is being told, refute it rather than attack a persons' character.

> So things like .. are ok to say?

In relevant context, if it exists, yes. Neither of those things seem like they would be relevant to this thread.

> All the articles posted in HN about salaries..

That's still something you had to provide evidence for, and couldn't just be assumed. So long as it's an objective subject, the personal attack is not justified.

Plus, there are HN articles that "debunk" the gender pay/wage gap too.

> the gap only happens with age, >35, where the position is important (it means less women in top positions)

Who says that's what it means. "over 35" means exactly just "over 35". Your interpretation that it's "top positions" as the relevant factor is just one explanation. "men work longer hours over longer periods of time" is another explanation, that is not refuted by your example.

The question wasn't backed, but neither was your own until just now (after the PA).

There is no way to definitively answer "How [the claim] is not disrespectful" since "disrespect" is subjective. It seems uncommon to treat something that is true or plausible as disrespectful though, so let's focus on plausibility instead.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#314

Post by Consultant32452 »

Frondo wrote: post #309
Consultant32452 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're arguing against a straw man. If she felt she was worth more than the salary she was offered, she shouldn't have accepted it in the first place. Simple as that.

Who can say what was going on in the inner world of this hypothetical second-hand story person's mind? All we know is she took a job and then took a better one. You're claiming that's an unethical act, and I'm saying, "it's the free market, baby!" They pushed for at-will, they got it, consequences and all. And, more broadly, I grew up in the transitionary period from "one job for life" to "throw 'em to the wolves," a…

There's a local employer here that is a household name. They have a history of doing things like offering positions to entire teams of people and then laying them off before their first day at work. In spite of the fact that they are one of the largest employers in the area I refuse to work with them because of their unethical behavior. Just because there are not laws which ban unethical behavior does not mean there are no consequences. I'd generally rather not work with someone who has shown a history of quitting after 3 weeks.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#315

Post by bluesroo »

barry0079 wrote: post #291
bearbearbear wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also the fact that the market is over-saturated and nobody needs a photographer because literally anyone can point an iPhone at whatever they like and get a perfect photo. Photography was hard in the 80s when you had to do your own lighting and process and develop film. Not anymore.

I held a similar opinion until I saw an amazing wedding photographer work her magic. That was a highly skilled job with a lot of work and effort and knowledge at play.

Easy to do, but hard to do well. And as a layperson in the photography world it's hard to know what you're missing until you compare an amateur and a professional side-by-side.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#316

Post by k3a »

alistproducer2 wrote: post #172

I'm leaving IT after 5 years to start a real estate company and work with my hands. I feel exactly the same way as the OP. Sitting on my butt for 6 years is wrecking my health and I hate the work. I've saved lots of money and as long as I don't screw up my investments, I'll never have to work for anyone else again. I love open source software and will continue to build and contribute to projects. I hate enterprise so…

Same here, I was lucky to work on a successful project and now have enough money to be independent. I am also going to support free and open software (I actually released some of my code and helped with small pull requests and I am donating a bit already). I mostly use free software now.

Corporations often restrict us and try to gain control and advantage over us. Just look at closed bios/intel ME. Why the hell is such an elementary piece of computer closed?

I purhased an expensive coffee machine. It works fine, except I would like to do a few minor software tweaks (add a note for each coffee config button to differentiate between them). If it were open, it would be very easy. Now I will have to reverse-engineer it and hope it uses some kind of filesystem and that extending it won't be too much work...

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#317

Post by k3a »

xstartup wrote: post #179

I work 20 hours a day and I don't even feel like I am working. This involves coding 10-15 hours a day with 5-6 hours of sales pitch and customer service. I know plenty of folks who really enjoy working all time.

It may look cool at the beginning but I guess you will change mind after 5-10 years..

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#318

Post by brailsafe »

wsc981 wrote: post #280
brailsafe wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In only a vaguely related tangent, was it at all challenging to immigrate to the country? I've been thinking about these sorts of possibilities but for the most part there always seems to be some challenging aspect to long-term residence. I'm from Canada, and am thinking about various countries in Europe and the tropics.

My emigration will happen officially next year. For me there would be several ways to make this emigration work: - I could get married to my girlfriend, this would give me a marriage visa. - I can pay for a special type of visa with a certain duration (choices are 5, 10, 20 years). A 5-year visa would cost around 10.000 EUR or 8 EUR / day and gives some extra benefits, like yearly health check-ups at a major hospital…

Thanks for the overview. I wasn't aware there were purely transactional visas like that.

Having explored options for a variety of countries, as a software developer without a degree there aren't a lot of options outside marriage, investment, and ancestry.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#319

Post by nickthemagicman »

arkh wrote: post #42
pfarnsworth wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could easily be explained by the sentiment, which I do not share or agree with, that “male programmers are better, but we are forced to hire women so let’s pay them less”.

I'd go with the usual Apex fallacy. One guy gets 20% more money than me! What? The other one who gets 20% less? Nah he's invisible. It's like the usual "men are in power". Yeah, some men. A lot are in shitty dead-end job with no prospect to get a better life. The death-at-work gap, the fact being a Father at Home is still frowned upon: don't care. If there is an earning gap maybe the fact men have to earn more for th…

Yes! Thank you! Men overwhelmingly populate traditionally low status dangerous jobs.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#320

Post by tzahola »

convolvatron wrote: post #312
johnwheeler wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that have to do with anything?

I think thats an important point. As someone on the back end of a career in software I look back at all the projects I was proud of and thought I crafted well, and in the end they turned out just like all the other large unmaintainable swamps that everyone complains about. Not completely clear about this, but the industry seems structured in such a way that (most) everything ends up being a horrifying mess of hacks o…

Very nicely put, thank you!
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