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I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

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Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#261

Post by bearbearbear »

jameskegel wrote: post #11

I read the article; I'm not sure this is so much a criticism of the industry as it is an examination of this developer's personal anecdotal experience. As developers, we lead a very charmed life that others sometimes aren't even born with the chance to intellectually compete for; the author neglects to address how lucky we are to be able to do this at all, let alone to then find employment in it. If it's not an indus…

> As developers, we lead a very charmed life that others sometimes aren't even born with the chance to intellectually compete for; the author neglects to address how lucky we are to be able to do this at all, let alone to then find employment in it.

As a normal, stupid person who interacts with coders frequently I find this to be not in the least unusual.

They simply don't understand what it is to be without a $4,000 apartment within walking distance of everything they could possibly want and so much money that figuring out what to do with it all is a real and ever present problem for them.

They love to humble brag about how the only people who shop at walmart are people who believe in despotic employment practices, never conceding to the fact that a lot of people shop there because they can't afford to pay $5 for a single apple (no seriously, at the Stanford Shopping Center there's a produce shop that sells a single apple for $5).

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#262

Post by bearbearbear »

parvenu74 wrote: post #194
jib wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shittier jobs I've had than a desk job: 5-6 hours a day biking in -15C snow with wet feet (Mailman). 8 hours a day moving chips one by one in and out of an EPROM writer because it was cheaper to have me do that than pay the extra 2c to have them preprogrammed. The chips were 25c without programming and 27c with. (Ericson subcontractor). And I am privileged as hell, coming from Sweden with a good education and a famil…

"It is not fun to work long hours of anything, and it is even less fun when something you used to do for entertainment turns into a chore." This is exactly why I quit photography: it was a passion in which I indulged in my own time that became a job when I didn't say no to friends (and then their friends, acquaintances, and sometimes strangers) who wanted me to photograph their wedding or similar "on your feet 12 hou…

Also the fact that the market is over-saturated and nobody needs a photographer because literally anyone can point an iPhone at whatever they like and get a perfect photo.

Photography was hard in the 80s when you had to do your own lighting and process and develop film. Not anymore.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#263

Post by bearbearbear »

claudiulodro wrote: post #51
jameskegel wrote: post #11

I read the article; I'm not sure this is so much a criticism of the industry as it is an examination of this developer's personal anecdotal experience. As developers, we lead a very charmed life that others sometimes aren't even born with the chance to intellectually compete for; the author neglects to address how lucky we are to be able to do this at all, let alone to then find employment in it. If it's not an indus…

I was a furniture upholsterer. It was super interesting, good exercise, and really required a lot of analytic thinking. I loved upholstery. However, I wasn't able to support a wife and kid on an upholsterer's paycheck. An employee upholsterer starts at $10/hour for a junior up to a high-range of $20/hr for 10+ years experience. Now I'm a software developer making multiples higher more income. I like it OK and I can p…

> I like it OK and I can provide a cushy life for my family. Upholstery was the best. I miss upholstery.

Condoms exist. Try using one.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#264

Post by keithnz »

This is why I have always enjoyed working for smaller companies. I've got to do lots of things, I'm a multi stack developer (tm), I code for embedded systems, Web, and Desktop. You build from scratch the things you need, you make "executive" decisions about technology stacks and generally do kind of hobby like stuff but in a proffesional way. You work with a few other individuals in the same boat and constantly have to innovate.

There are downsides, you rarely get to focus on one thing for any extended amount of time, so some of the bigger pieces of work get trickier to do. Often you come up with really good ideas that would be great to do but just go on the back burner.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#265

Post by whoisjohnkid »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #120
tboyd47 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't she? Maybe she wanted to get her foot in the door. The point I'm trying to make is that the company needed her more than she needed them.

>Why wouldn't she? Because it's unethical to agree to work for a rate you're not actually willing to work for. She wasted a lot of people's time and resources to bring her on board for those three weeks. >The point I'm trying to make is that the company needed her more than she needed them. I wouldn't want to work with a person who accepts an offer and then THREE WEEKS later starts demanding raises, no matter what th…

Yeah I thought the same thing why would someone accept a position at a given rate and expect a raise in 3 weeks? The only logical way I can comprehend that sentence is that HE was there for 3 weeks and SHE was already working there and after being there for X amount of time realized she wasn’t being paid what she’s worth. X being at least 6 months but realistically a year or more there.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#266

Post by jorgemf »

dang wrote: post #255
jorgemf wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you work longer hours that is your problem. You are paid to work a fixed amount of hours and the salary is linked to it, it doesn't matter what gender you are. So sorry to tell you but you sound like the typical guy women don't want to work with (neither me).

This crosses into personal attack, which is not allowed here. Please don't do it again.

Please explain how is this a personal attack as it wasn't my intention. And how saying that women earn less because men work more is ok to say.

And I am sorry to tell you but you supporting him saying those things and complaining about what I said is one of the reasons women are complaining so much about tech guys.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#267

Post by Consultant32452 »

Frondo wrote: post #155
Consultant32452 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why wouldn't she? Because it's unethical to agree to work for a rate you're not actually willing to work for. She wasted a lot of people's time and resources to bring her on board for those three weeks. >The point I'm trying to make is that the company needed her more than she needed them. I wouldn't want to work with a person who accepts an offer and then THREE WEEKS later starts demanding raises, no matter what th…

Oh, no no no. If they can fire us at any time, we can leave at any time. There should be absolutely nothing in anyone that says "work for less than what you're worth". Whatever her reasons for going for and getting what she wanted, good for her. And any ethical system that says "work for less than what you're worth in an at-will environment" is a bad ethical system, full stop.

You're arguing against a straw man. If she felt she was worth more than the salary she was offered, she shouldn't have accepted it in the first place. Simple as that.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#268

Post by nikdaheratik »

jameskegel wrote: post #11

I read the article; I'm not sure this is so much a criticism of the industry as it is an examination of this developer's personal anecdotal experience. As developers, we lead a very charmed life that others sometimes aren't even born with the chance to intellectually compete for; the author neglects to address how lucky we are to be able to do this at all, let alone to then find employment in it. If it's not an indus…

I don't think the comparison is to the service industry, but rather to other in demand jobs that require the same level of education and don't get pushed into some kind of massive grind based on artificial deadlines.

If you get into software because you love the work, but then find out at this particular company, their goal is to make the work more boring and predictable than accounting. Only they also decide that you have to do this boring stuff for 50+ hours a week in order to meet whatever deadline they told their executives, you'd probably think about a different field as well.

It really depends on the company, on the freedom you get to do your job, and the kinds of problems you are allowed to work on. And the choices many people are given is to either work at an established company where all of the interesting work is locked up by the Senior people who will never leave, or work at a "scrappy" startup that doesn't have the budget to hire a reasonable number of people, doesn't know how to make a realistic timeline, and may not be there in a few years. It's possible to find a job or company with the right mix, but if you don't luck into one of those, the industry really can feel like a mug's game.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#269

Post by Consultant32452 »

dastbe wrote: post #245
heimidal wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counteroffers are widely regarded as a terrible thing to offer -- it sets a precedent that anyone, at any time, can attempt to hold your company hostage for more money. Most organizations with much industry experience will pass on any sort of counteroffer. And it's likely that she _absolutely did_ waste people's time -- the company may have passed on other candidates to hire her and had to start over.

How are they holding the company hostage? You either agree to a salary or you don’t, and if you want to mitigate the risk of even having to discuss salary, you overpay. I realize from a mgmt perspective it sucks to lose someone you invested a decent chunk if change searching for, but it’s on you to mitigate that risk. In some sense, they wasted their own time by not overpaying.

You might have a point on a longer time scale. This is three weeks. She likely hadn't even gotten her first pay check. Her market value did not change that much in three weeks.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#270

Post by Consultant32452 »

stickfigure wrote: post #152
Consultant32452 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why wouldn't she? Because it's unethical to agree to work for a rate you're not actually willing to work for. She wasted a lot of people's time and resources to bring her on board for those three weeks. >The point I'm trying to make is that the company needed her more than she needed them. I wouldn't want to work with a person who accepts an offer and then THREE WEEKS later starts demanding raises, no matter what th…

It's possibly more complex than that? Maybe she was willing to work for less given other soft-factors; when she arrived, perhaps she found those soft-factors illusory (different boss; different project or work scope; coworkers aren't so fun after all, etc). In that case, asking for a raise is pretty reasonable. Also, she may have simply gotten an offer she couldn't refuse from another company. You could argue that th…

Given the fact that "she" is completely anonymous in this case, no one is judging a person, we're judging the situation as described. Get off your high horse.
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