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I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

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Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#291

Post by barry0079 »

bearbearbear wrote: post #262
parvenu74 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It is not fun to work long hours of anything, and it is even less fun when something you used to do for entertainment turns into a chore." This is exactly why I quit photography: it was a passion in which I indulged in my own time that became a job when I didn't say no to friends (and then their friends, acquaintances, and sometimes strangers) who wanted me to photograph their wedding or similar "on your feet 12 hou…

Also the fact that the market is over-saturated and nobody needs a photographer because literally anyone can point an iPhone at whatever they like and get a perfect photo. Photography was hard in the 80s when you had to do your own lighting and process and develop film. Not anymore.

I held a similar opinion until I saw an amazing wedding photographer work her magic. That was a highly skilled job with a lot of work and effort and knowledge at play.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#292

Post by tonyedgecombe »

xstartup wrote: post #179

I work 20 hours a day and I don't even feel like I am working. This involves coding 10-15 hours a day with 5-6 hours of sales pitch and customer service. I know plenty of folks who really enjoy working all time.

How long do you think you can sustain that? Do you think you are doing good work?

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#293

Post by tonyedgecombe »

dentemple wrote: post #221
BenchRouter wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people have way more taxing jobs than IT. I've been in construction for 3 years, and that work is no joke. There's some discussion of this above, but I think it's interesting that the alternative to software development is seemingly always construction, or delivering food, or being a waiter. Wouldn't the more apt comparison be something like law? Or medicine? Or has software development truly reached blue-coll…

>There's some discussion of this above, but I think it's interesting that the alternative to software development is seemingly always construction, or delivering food, or being a waiter. You don't need a degree--or even any formal education at all--to become a software developer. That's why it's often compared to blue-collar jobs. For people like us, if we weren't developers, then blue-collar is our only other option…

Yes, if I hadn't entered this business I'm pretty sure I'd have ended up in a trade, electrician most likely.

I sometimes wonder if that might have been an easier path, make programming a hobby rather than career.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#294

Post by Chris2048 »

jorgemf wrote: post #266
dang wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This crosses into personal attack, which is not allowed here. Please don't do it again.

Please explain how is this a personal attack as it wasn't my intention. And how saying that women earn less because men work more is ok to say. And I am sorry to tell you but you supporting him saying those things and complaining about what I said is one of the reasons women are complaining so much about tech guys.

This is a personal attack:

> you sound like the typical guy women don't want to work with

You don't substantiate this claim with respect to why they "sounds like" this, what a "typical guy women don't want to work with" is, or why it matters in context to this thread - but decide to air this unflattering view anyway.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#295

Post by mclightning »

wsc981 wrote: post #280
brailsafe wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In only a vaguely related tangent, was it at all challenging to immigrate to the country? I've been thinking about these sorts of possibilities but for the most part there always seems to be some challenging aspect to long-term residence. I'm from Canada, and am thinking about various countries in Europe and the tropics.

My emigration will happen officially next year. For me there would be several ways to make this emigration work: - I could get married to my girlfriend, this would give me a marriage visa. - I can pay for a special type of visa with a certain duration (choices are 5, 10, 20 years). A 5-year visa would cost around 10.000 EUR or 8 EUR / day and gives some extra benefits, like yearly health check-ups at a major hospital…

which country is this?

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#296

Post by jorgemf »

Chris2048 wrote: post #294
jorgemf wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain how is this a personal attack as it wasn't my intention. And how saying that women earn less because men work more is ok to say. And I am sorry to tell you but you supporting him saying those things and complaining about what I said is one of the reasons women are complaining so much about tech guys.

This is a personal attack: > you sound like the typical guy women don't want to work with You don't substantiate this claim with respect to why they "sounds like" this, what a "typical guy women don't want to work with" is, or why it matters in context to this thread - but decide to air this unflattering view anyway.

I didn't ask you. So I am not sure you are telling me the correct answer.

But I want to ask you something. How "That is not why women earn 20% less than men. It is because men work longer hours over longer periods of time than women do." is not disrespectful and how it was backed? Sorry but I cannot stand without doing anything with such claims, and it pisses me off that the mods here think my comment is a personal attack and the said claim (that is not supported by any reference and it is also false) can pass without problems.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#297

Post by samirillian »

ImSkeptical wrote: post #282
samirillian wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a perfect example of the tone that people (men) effect when they want to mask their own emotional reaction to feeling attacked with a veneer of logicism or scientificity. Simply state that her claims are anecdotal, and without even addressing the core of the argument you've managed to make them sound _unreasonable_. At least to those amenable to that kind of passive aggressive ad hominem.

The article author's claims are anecdotal by definition. She is recounting the story of why she doesn't want to be a software developer anymore. As readers, we can ask ourselves whether her story represents something that we feel is true in our own lives. In a way, the comment you are replying to is at odds with article, and in a way the comment is in agreement with the article. The comment you are replying to states…

I believe it's effect. Check out the verb section. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/effect

But, once again, nice side ad hominem. Keep 'em coming.

-edit:

Here's the thing, I'm a dude, and I have worked construction and agricultural jobs. I'm not pissed because I personally feel attacked. I'm pissed because I consider HN one of the most intellectually-honest fora online, but whenever gender politics comes up, the pretense of intellectual honesty gets used as a weapon. I get pissed at what I truly perceive to be intellectual dishonesty, I really dislike it, because I love the truth.

One truth is that telling somebody to find a new job if they don't want to have to deal with neck strain or gender politics is clearly a dig at the woman's femininity.

Another truth is that intimidation is not meant to be felt by those exercising it (Pierre Bourdieu, in paraphrase). So of course men aren't going to naturally "feel" intimidated by a subtle implication that a woman is not up to the physicality of many jobs, or that she's being too sensitive. The dig wasn't aimed at them.

So, yeah, I'm bugged. But I'm bugged because I'm convinced that the HN community (as a whole) is just plain wrong on this point, and they continue to be, despite any new information that comes their way.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#298

Post by DanBC »

ImSkeptical wrote: post #282
samirillian wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a perfect example of the tone that people (men) effect when they want to mask their own emotional reaction to feeling attacked with a veneer of logicism or scientificity. Simply state that her claims are anecdotal, and without even addressing the core of the argument you've managed to make them sound _unreasonable_. At least to those amenable to that kind of passive aggressive ad hominem.

The article author's claims are anecdotal by definition. She is recounting the story of why she doesn't want to be a software developer anymore. As readers, we can ask ourselves whether her story represents something that we feel is true in our own lives. In a way, the comment you are replying to is at odds with article, and in a way the comment is in agreement with the article. The comment you are replying to states…

> with it's flaws.

> As a final note, I believe the word you are looking for is "affect" and not "effect"

A nice example of Skitt's Law.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/skitt-s-law

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#299

Post by Chris2048 »

jorgemf wrote: post #296
Chris2048 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a personal attack: > you sound like the typical guy women don't want to work with You don't substantiate this claim with respect to why they "sounds like" this, what a "typical guy women don't want to work with" is, or why it matters in context to this thread - but decide to air this unflattering view anyway.

I didn't ask you. So I am not sure you are telling me the correct answer. But I want to ask you something. How "That is not why women earn 20% less than men. It is because men work longer hours over longer periods of time than women do." is not disrespectful and how it was backed? Sorry but I cannot stand without doing anything with such claims, and it pisses me off that the mods here think my comment is a personal a…

I can only offer a guess at what dang thought was a personal attack, but I can opine on what is a personal attack independently.

There are different contexts in which different levels of evidence or backing might be supplied, but the first thing I noted is that you don't explain why the things you mention are relevant. "That is not why women earn 20% less than men", regardless of if it is true or false is clearly relevant to the discussion, but why is what someone "sounds like" relevant?

Also, there is enough information in the above claim to search on it - or at least the claim can be refuted and thus begin an exchange of evidence. But your claim is about the character of the anonymous person you are talking to. Claims about a population of people, brought up in a relevant context is not disrespectful (possibly, depending on the legitimacy of the claims, but that is yet to be decided); Making remarks out of context about an individual is entirely different.

> that is not supported by any reference and it is also false

Who says it's false? Just say you don't believe the claim, and ask for evidence, or make a counter-claim of your own.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#300

Post by wsc981 »

mclightning wrote: post #295
wsc981 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My emigration will happen officially next year. For me there would be several ways to make this emigration work: - I could get married to my girlfriend, this would give me a marriage visa. - I can pay for a special type of visa with a certain duration (choices are 5, 10, 20 years). A 5-year visa would cost around 10.000 EUR or 8 EUR / day and gives some extra benefits, like yearly health check-ups at a major hospital…

which country is this?

Thailand. The paid visa plan is called Thailand Elite[0]. Apparently there should also be some sort of new visa that could be useful for digital nomads introduced in 2018 [1]. The company that can provide a work permit in exchange if 30% of your invoice is called IGLU [2].

By the way, after staying 5 or 10 year inside the country, one can apply for a Thai citizenship, which is something I will consider [3].

---

[0]: https://thailandelite.org

[1]: https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/997836-4-year-professio...

[2]: https://iglu.net

[3]: https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/121353-story-of-my-thai...

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