Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history

reddit.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 206 posts

Re: The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history

#181

Post by kozikow »

kibwen wrote: post #131
simias wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of any way out honestly. You can say anything you want about EA but I'm sure they act very rationally. If despite the heavy backlash over the years they keep doing what they're doing then it must be working for them. That's the problem with these lootboxes, given how fast they spread to every AAA games these days (including single player games where they hardly make sense in the first place) it's obviou…

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 was released on Nov 10, 2009. Here's a famous image from Nov 12, 2009: https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--uJYUJ7W... As for your prediction, I think you're sadly spot-on. There will always be enough whales to make it worthwhile to pander to them, and milking them will be essential for any company that cares more about making money than about making a good game.

Probably ended up on EA PM's presentation justifying current practices.

Hate all you want, "pay to win" model works for extracting as much value as you can from each user. Same concept as Tesla artificially reducing mile range. I heard from someone working in a game studio about a "whale" user spending $1M dollars on microtransactions for a mobile game.

Re: The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history

#182

Post by fleitz »

pwinnski wrote: post #172
fleitz wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The users speak with their actions... If they do the thing you want them to do more with a 'bad' UX than with a good one logic dictates they prefer the bad one. It would be morally presumptuous on my part to say that what I find to be annoying is not what they prefer. It's like clickbait listicles, they get written because they work.

This is utter tosh. If they do the thing you want them to do, than logic dictates nothing about their preferences at all. If changing the UX results in a significant change in behavior, that actually suggests--I mean, "logic dictates" you've taken away an option that a significant number of people preferred so much they used it when it was available. Think about it this way: Given the choice of watching channel A or…

People don't have the option to not click on listicles? They don't have the option to use another app? They don't have the option to close the app?

Re: The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history

#183

Post by fleitz »

deadmetheny wrote: post #179
fleitz wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The users speak with their actions... If they do the thing you want them to do more with a 'bad' UX than with a good one logic dictates they prefer the bad one. It would be morally presumptuous on my part to say that what I find to be annoying is not what they prefer. It's like clickbait listicles, they get written because they work.

I'm going to give you the choice of being stabbed or punched. It would be morally presumptuous on my part to assume you don't actually enjoy the choice you have made, given you took that choice logically.

I'd take being punched, easy choice.

Removing a cancel button or publishing a listicle is hardly a false dichotomy, you can close the app, you can not click on it.

Users love anti-patterns which is why they frequent businesses that engage in them, rather than choose another business that doesn't. I had your inclinations too when I started making them, I protested that this would lead to various bad outcomes which didn't happen. None, zero, nada. Sign ups went up, traffic went up, etc.

Re: The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history

#184

Post by razakel »

fleitz wrote: post #182
pwinnski wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is utter tosh. If they do the thing you want them to do, than logic dictates nothing about their preferences at all. If changing the UX results in a significant change in behavior, that actually suggests--I mean, "logic dictates" you've taken away an option that a significant number of people preferred so much they used it when it was available. Think about it this way: Given the choice of watching channel A or…

People don't have the option to not click on listicles? They don't have the option to use another app? They don't have the option to close the app?

They have the option, but you're using psychology to trick them into thinking they don't.

You're using a medical science to manipulate people so you can make money. You're disgusting.

Re: The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history

#185

Post by razakel »

fleitz wrote: post #183
deadmetheny wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to give you the choice of being stabbed or punched. It would be morally presumptuous on my part to assume you don't actually enjoy the choice you have made, given you took that choice logically.

I'd take being punched, easy choice. Removing a cancel button or publishing a listicle is hardly a false dichotomy, you can close the app, you can not click on it. Users love anti-patterns which is why they frequent businesses that engage in them, rather than choose another business that doesn't. I had your inclinations too when I started making them, I protested that this would lead to various bad outcomes which did…

People don't necessarily do things because they like them or want to. Addiction is a thing.

Re: The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history

#186

Post by razakel »

bunderbunder wrote: post #162
dvlsg wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's part of the problem, though. For a lot of these games, the player does enjoy them - just not the loot boxes and how they have affected how quickly "free" players can unlock things.

I guess I still don't see the problem, then. Is the problem that EA has some sort of moral obligation to introduce only the kinds of game mechanics that a specific set of people enjoys, and anyone who responds to (and, apparently, is willing to pay a whole lot of money for) different game mechanics can go jump in a lake?

Getting your credit card out is only a "game mechanic" in dodgy casinos. There's a reason gambling is regulated.

Re: The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history

#187

Post by razakel »

falcolas wrote: post #153
hawski wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of those "whales" have certainly a gambling problem. Of course there may be a few rich enough people, but they also probably have some problems. It's sad that their weakness is exploited this way.

Well, when you consider that gambling (or opening loot boxes) hits some very primitive reward centers of our brain... is it any surprise? Video games are simply abstracted skinner boxes to begin with; loot boxes with their carefully tuned Vegas-esque lights, sounds, and reward percentages just amp up the "push a button, maybe get a reward" to the Nth degree. And yeah, it is sad. It's probably even worse than sad.

>Video games are simply abstracted skinner boxes to begin with; loot boxes with their carefully tuned Vegas-esque lights, sounds, and reward percentages just amp up the "push a button, maybe get a reward" to the Nth degree.

My dad, who was a gamer in his youth, always described gaming as getting addicted to "flashing light boxes".

It was only once I was old enough to go to a bookie's and watch someone feed £20 after £20 into a fruit machine that I saw what he meant.

Re: The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history

#188

Post by guiomie »

mastax wrote: post #107
guiomie wrote: post #57

Ahah, not surprised. That game felt like a beta when it was released, I could not comprehend how they could release something like this. I only started getting back into gaming recently, and to my surprise, the issue of launching broken games seems to be industry practice. Battlefield 1 had so many issues, the new CoD:WW2 has so many issues. I stopped gaming a few years ago (last game was CoD:2), and I am shocked tha…

Battlefront 2 (the new one) isn't released until the 17.

I thought they had changed Battlefront 1.

Re: The most downvoted comment in Reddit's history

#190

Post by bunderbunder »

razakel wrote: post #186
bunderbunder wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I still don't see the problem, then. Is the problem that EA has some sort of moral obligation to introduce only the kinds of game mechanics that a specific set of people enjoys, and anyone who responds to (and, apparently, is willing to pay a whole lot of money for) different game mechanics can go jump in a lake?

Getting your credit card out is only a "game mechanic" in dodgy casinos. There's a reason gambling is regulated.

Yup. And I wouldn't be surprised to find out that members gambling and video game industries even exchange notes on how to attract and coax money out of whales.

Gambling isn't really my cup of tea, either. But I suppose I also shouldn't be surprised if I were to go to one and discover that some portion of the people there are loudly complaining about what a rip off everything is, but not actually leaving the casino to go find something else to do.

Post reply on HN