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Why Happy People Cheat

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#61

Post by Nursie »

colanderman wrote: post #48
Nursie wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> So the acceptable "solution" to this imbalance is to socially force (through normalization of monogamy and marriage) women into relationships If you read into polygamous societies, it's often that (particularly very young) women are forced into relationships with socially powerful men. Not much to do with attraction.

To me, that sounds like a problem caused by patriarchy or other power imbalances: in many societies, men have great power (earning potential), women have little, and hence are forced to marry (preferably the richest man) to gain power. Of course you can address the symptom (women choosing the wealthier/more powerful men, leaving the men who are less-so without a mate), but the underlying disease remains: womens' choi…

I don't think you've quite understood my last comment.

It's not really about men being high earners or having some sort indefinable social capital that makes women "marry up" in most examples of polygynous cultures AFAICT, it's literal force. It's not women choosing to marry the man with the most power or wealth, it's cultural and religious forced marriage, on threat of ostracism, familial disgrace or much worse.

Yes, it is a problem caused by patriarchy, they tend to be highly patriarchal societies, the ones where men routinely have more than one wife.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#62

Post by staticelf »

norswap wrote: post #25
staticelf wrote: post #5

TLDR; It is possible to like more than one individual. I for one doesn't understand why anyone would marry except for economical benefits/security. Personally, I would much rather have 2 or more girlfriends/partners who enjoy me and eachother than a marriage with one. Since I believe that the male sex drive is bigger than that of women, I don't understand why I should be limited to just enjoy one other woman. However…

While I do agree that monogamy is a simplistic view, the view you propose is equally simplistic. While polygamy is potentially more rewarding than monogamy, it is also much tricky to get right. Given how many people struggle with monogamy already (and most often, it should be said, not because of the exclusivity), it's not really surprised it became the standard.

Yeah of course it is tricky, I haven't suggested that it would be easy. But for it to work everyone ivolved have to be very open as individuals, strong in communication and I think that may help.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#63

Post by LordKano »

staticelf wrote: post #17
gumby wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since I believe that the male sex drive is bigger than that of women... Your belief is not borne out by data. And for a long period in the West the opposite was the common belief. In some countries like contemporary Iran, sex education includes the pleasure, needs and in-the-bed sexual equality of both partners (in Iran’s case to try to preserve conservative marriage and increase procreation — obviously there is no…

I think I read some paper about homosexual men having the most sex and homosexual women the least, if that is true I think it would be data that suggests that my belief is correct. But otherwise my belief is based on experience mostly.

I saw a documentary once called "Brain Sex" and as I remember it, in the days before HIV/AIDS, it wasn't unheard of for some gay men to have 1,000 sexual partners in a lifetime.

I'm sure that this has changed dramatically over the past 30-35 years.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#64

Post by dalbasal »

jrs95 wrote: post #22
samirillian wrote: post #16

Yeah, it might be able self discovery, but it might be about enacting a narcissistic fantasy. The author is right, you reconstruct yourself in the other's gaze, you slake your thirst with the other's mouth. But what kind of self are you constructing here? And what power will your own fantasies have over the person with whom you conduct the affair?

Yeah, I don't think the normalization of this obviously selfish and destructive behavior is a positive thing at all.

An interesting subplot in the culture of sexual fidelity is (IMO) the cultural promotion of multiple sequential relationships.

The most culturally acceptable middle class sex life today involves a series of monogomous relationships. We're encouraged to start young with practice relationships (ideally stopping short of "real sex") for teenagers, which are expected to end. Then, a variety of relationships ranging from one nighters to multi-year relationships anyone from the past would have called marriage. Variety is generally valued. Then Marriage(s).

My GreatGrandmother would have raised eyebrows at all this.

Even though sexual norms have radically shifted during this time, our view of fidelity remained kind of static. Promiscuity good, infidelity bad.

The culture surrounding sex is among the most complex in the human repertoire, but such a shift on promiscuity without a shift on infidelity seems like an oddity of our culture, probably a short term one.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#65

Post by lsd5you »

Nursie wrote: post #45
lsd5you wrote: post #39

So affairs are 'wrong', but who would want to live in a world where there are no affairs? We excessively police and punish our partners, our friends' partners and our parents, but often hypocritically, when it comes to ourselves and our friends cheating will generally be forgiven. I am not even advocating abolishing the hypocricy. Without it affairs probably wouldn't be exciting and equally, faithful relationships wo…

>>what I can say is that for a woman this can be even worse, as it leaves them without something to be mad and and just feeling unvalued. This appears to be sexist tripe.

I'm sorry, it is conditionally worded and is grounded in my personal experiences. You can have your view, but don't sling ignorant insults. Perhaps try to show me why it is wrong? Or perhaps open your mind as to why someone might think it is the case.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#66

Post by colanderman »

KGIII wrote: post #50
toomuchtodo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's easily solved with a blood test before you engage in a sexual relationship with additional partners.

That seems both impractical and likely to ruin any mood. Instead of, "Hold on, I have to get a condom." It is now, "Let's take you down to the clinic and get you tested!" Then, as they likely have multiple partners as well, you end up needing a constant stream of blood tests. In short, it's risky behavior. You can do it, it's not up to me to judge. But, it seems like a lot more work than just committing to one person…

What? First, condoms prevent or reduce the risk of contracting most STDs (including HIV) [1]. Second, you're confusing polyamory (a few committed relationships) with promiscuity (many non-committed sexual partners).

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/brief.html#HIV

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#67

Post by staticelf »

Insanity wrote: post #35
staticelf wrote: post #5

TLDR; It is possible to like more than one individual. I for one doesn't understand why anyone would marry except for economical benefits/security. Personally, I would much rather have 2 or more girlfriends/partners who enjoy me and eachother than a marriage with one. Since I believe that the male sex drive is bigger than that of women, I don't understand why I should be limited to just enjoy one other woman. However…

> Personally, I would much rather have 2 or more girlfriends/partners Sharing time between them would take away most of your personal time though. It'd also be kind of annoying with kids.

They can have time with either me or themselves. I guess kids would complicate things a lot but hopefully I can manage to avoid that part.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#68

Post by Nursie »

staticelf wrote: post #55
Nursie wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Personally, I would much rather have 2 or more girlfriends/partners who enjoy me and eachother than a marriage with one. And they have other men in their lives too? You have some funny beliefs, and you'll find a thriving polyamory community out there that many women take part in. It's just that if you're not going looking for an exclusive relationship, neither are they.

> And they have other men in their lives too? Haven't really thought about that. I guess it depends on the relationship I have with them. If we live together I rather like them to be bisexual, but I guess it would be ok for me to live like a collective and for them to enjoy other men. But then I would like to know these men and perhaps even live with them and the women. > You have some funny beliefs, and you'll find…

Ha!

I was half expecting you to come back "Of course not, the very idea !!!?!"

Seriously, if that seems like something you're interested in, there are a lot of people out there who agree with you, of both/all genders, many who are bisexual as well. Look up some local poly meetups, there are lots around (though you may have more luck finding them in major cities). Best of luck.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#69

Post by Retra »

staticelf wrote: post #55
Nursie wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Personally, I would much rather have 2 or more girlfriends/partners who enjoy me and eachother than a marriage with one. And they have other men in their lives too? You have some funny beliefs, and you'll find a thriving polyamory community out there that many women take part in. It's just that if you're not going looking for an exclusive relationship, neither are they.

> And they have other men in their lives too? Haven't really thought about that. I guess it depends on the relationship I have with them. If we live together I rather like them to be bisexual, but I guess it would be ok for me to live like a collective and for them to enjoy other men. But then I would like to know these men and perhaps even live with them and the women. > You have some funny beliefs, and you'll find…

>I am going to be dead for a long effing time.

See... I think that thought and I continue with "what does it matter if I'm only with one person? My contribution to the world is not going to be based on how sexually satisfied I am."

I have whatever sex I need to get it off my mind so that I can work on my hobbies and interests without distraction. "I'm going to be dead" is just as much a reason to be miserable as it is a reason to be happy. (That is, they have nothing to do with each other whatsoever.)

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#70

Post by Nursie »

lsd5you wrote: post #65
Nursie wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>what I can say is that for a woman this can be even worse, as it leaves them without something to be mad and and just feeling unvalued. This appears to be sexist tripe.

I'm sorry, it is conditionally worded and is grounded in my personal experiences. You can have your view, but don't sling ignorant insults. Perhaps try to show me why it is wrong? Or perhaps open your mind as to why someone might think it is the case.

You've just said that marriage breakup for women is worse than for men, because it leaves them without something to be mad at!

And somehow you think that's not sexist....

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