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Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

theamericanconservative.com

111–120 of 124 posts

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#111
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I personally think he should have said was this: "Good question Son. Glad you asked. See, the US needs to maintain a military sphere of influence between the resource rich regions of the former Soviet Union and the heavily populated regions of South East Asia. Additionally we would like something of a base between an emerging China and Russia, Pakistan and Iran. You've played "Risk" right? It's a strategic thing…

I agree, leaders ought to be able to handle these hard questions and still inspire. I'd expand your "answer" to include "We know this is a tough mission which why we train hard. As leaders it's all of ours goal to get as many of you home alive as possible." Believe it or not, they do train with techniques to (for example) charge machine gun positions without losing anyone; grenades, covering fire, and leap frogging.…

We do train to do that but I never assumed that we'd ever not lose anyone in that kind of combat. I'm certain that casualties would be high while assaulting a machine gun nest. The interesting thing is that we haven't done that kind of fighting in many years, probably since Viet Nam. Now we patrol the streets of the third world and get hit by snipers.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#112
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The fundamental geostrategical priority for Russia is to maintain control (or at least good relations with, see Belarus) of the buffer regions around its densely populated regions. Invading your neighbours is ok, if you'll just call it 'good relations'? >That is why there are “tensions” when your neighbor begins discussions of entering NATO with a bit of USDS help. Invading Ukraine was not a 'tension' and had nothin…

Invasion of Donetsk and Luhansk has never been proven. Crimea, sure I will concede that. For the record, I don’t approve of it, even though Crimea has been under Russia’s control for hundreds of years, and was only given to Ukraine by Khrushchev in the 50s.

Yes. Some knowledge of history helps in these conversations. Crimea has been under Russian control in some form for hundreds of years and is the home of their most important naval installation. Under political pressure from the West, the felt that their position there was threatened.

Anyone who thinks America wouldn't do the same given the circumstances is mistaken. We're not the "good guys" in the world.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#113
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also highly immoral. Destabilization and war in foreign lands results in devastating consequences for the civilian population. The US Government has a lot to answer for, and likely never will.

Because the people change. How do you hold the people of today responsible for actions of the dead? That’s another form of tyranny Lift the oppressed but don’t oppress the rest for the past. Now, I don’t mean losing your cars and multiple homes as oppression. Not defending unfettered materialism Thomas Jefferson advocated for resetting the Constitution and laws for the same reason. Why hold people on 2017 to the phil…

Because our shenanigans in Iraq, Libya, Syria, and dozens of other countries happened so long ago...Is that your argument? The United States is directly responsible for worldwide violence just within the last decade. I'm not talking about Thomas Jefferson here.

The government consists of individuals. George Bush. John McCain. Barack Obama. We'll likely never know who all of the people are that influence these terrible policies.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#114
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the people change. How do you hold the people of today responsible for actions of the dead? That’s another form of tyranny Lift the oppressed but don’t oppress the rest for the past. Now, I don’t mean losing your cars and multiple homes as oppression. Not defending unfettered materialism Thomas Jefferson advocated for resetting the Constitution and laws for the same reason. Why hold people on 2017 to the phil…

Because our shenanigans in Iraq, Libya, Syria, and dozens of other countries happened so long ago...Is that your argument? The United States is directly responsible for worldwide violence just within the last decade. I'm not talking about Thomas Jefferson here. The government consists of individuals. George Bush. John McCain. Barack Obama. We'll likely never know who all of the people are that influence these terribl…

Don’t write “hold the government responsible” is what I mean.

Write about holding Obama or whoever, and detail the reasons

Break down the abstractions to specific actors and events in detail

“Corporations are evil!” Is the same nebulous crap that puts Equifax on the hook not their CEO

Name the people and their actions. It’s how it works for us.

Language matters. And we often blame abstractions like “the government”

How do you hold that accountable? Most people can’t even name all 3 branches

People don’t look at it as the individuals. If you want them to think of GW or Obama write their names and increase the signal associated with their efforts

You just did it again “The Unites States is directly responsible...” All 300+ million directly? All government employees during the Obama administration did vile acts?

What’s the real who and when of it?

At least personally I see nebulous references such as “the US government did shifty thing!” as pointless

Arguments have been made the US government has been violating its founding documents since the start

Tell me specifically who and why and let’s have a real conversation about it

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#115
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m Russian, but I don’t live in Russia, so I’m not exposed to “Russian propaganda” (you do seem to be exposed to the Ukrainian flavor of it though). I also commiserate with what happened on the Ukrainian side, and in every election where Putin ran I voted against Putin. I dislike the man, and think he will be harmful to Russia in the long term. That said, you also can’t deny the involvement of the US Department of s…

>The fundamental geostrategical priority for Russia is to maintain control (or at least good relations with, see Belarus) of the buffer regions around its densely populated regions. Invading your neighbours is ok, if you'll just call it 'good relations'? >That is why there are “tensions” when your neighbor begins discussions of entering NATO with a bit of USDS help. Invading Ukraine was not a 'tension' and had nothin…

> Invading your neighbours is ok, if you'll just call it 'good relations'?

It is irrelevant. Sane people should recognize that if Russia decides that any of its smaller neighbors are dangerous to Russia from Russia's point of view, Russia will smash those neighbors and absolutely no one is going to risk a fight with Russia to defend such neighbors. You may not like it. I may not like it. Anti-Russian faction of the US may not like but that is the world that we live in. Until this world changes ( and with time it will ) Russia's neighbors are better not do bidding of others who seek to "advance democracy" or do whatever the hell else they want to do which would antagonize Russia. It just won't end up well for those neighbors.

This already happened once. The year was 2008 and a not very much in touch with a real world, educated in the West, Georgia's President bought hook, line and sinker into senile assurances of McCain and other members of the "Democracy for the World!" cabal. Saakashvilli decided to smash what Russia considers its enclave in Georgia (that had a de-facto autonomy inside Georgia, had a very large Russian majority but none the less had as much effect on Georgia's government as a village of 200 in West Virginia that claims to be special an independent from Washington, DC has on those going to Jean George in NYC) during the opening days of the 2008 Olympic Games in China. Putin was at those games. The calculation was rather simple it seems - there was no way Russia would respond militarily. That would be a total PR disaster, right? Well, there's this famous Russian proverb "Гладко было на бумаге, да забыли про овраги" which loosely equivalent to "No plan survives reality". Russia refused to play by the PR war rules. Instead of letting Georgia have those enclaves, Putin sent Russian paratroopers to deal with a Georgian army. So instead of the opposite side being a loose band of self-defense forces, it was Russian rapid deployment detachments. Georgian attack was repelled, their supply lines were cut, forces inside the enclaves were smashed and by the day number three the regular Russian army was deployed to use an overwhelming force against Georgia. Saakashvilli went to ask for help from the US, which he absolutely expected to get, especially since Russians started exterminating his troops. McCain and other clowns mumbled something on TV but at the end calculation was simple - US was not going to go to war with Russia over Georgia.

The same happened with Ukraine. Russia has strategic interests and billions of dollars invested in the Crimea and its ports. One needed to be really naive not to realize how Russia would respond to an attempt to squeeze it out of Crimea. That should have been especially obvious in after seeing Russia's response to Georgia in 2008. Unfortunately, the smartest people in the room did not learn from Saakashvilli's mistakes, so Russia took Crimea. The US did not go to war with Russia over it because it is not the war the US could possibly win. At most it could have delivered some significant damage to Russia. That damage, however, would have paled compared to the damage Russia would have delivered to the NATO counties in Europe. So no one was going to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. No one would go to war with Russia over any other former Soviet Republics.

Luckily, contrary to the scare mongering peddled by some rather insane people, Russia does not really have any interest in starting war with those who don't threaten it.

Give it another 30 peaceful years and Russia would change, just like entire Eastern Europe would. Over a long term, Starbucks and Spotify are must more effective weapons than Apache helicopters, especially since those helicopters need to be shipped from the United States.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#116
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The fundamental geostrategical priority for Russia is to maintain control (or at least good relations with, see Belarus) of the buffer regions around its densely populated regions. Invading your neighbours is ok, if you'll just call it 'good relations'? >That is why there are “tensions” when your neighbor begins discussions of entering NATO with a bit of USDS help. Invading Ukraine was not a 'tension' and had nothin…

Invasion of Donetsk and Luhansk has never been proven. Crimea, sure I will concede that. For the record, I don’t approve of it, even though Crimea has been under Russia’s control for hundreds of years, and was only given to Ukraine by Khrushchev in the 50s.

Russia don't exist for 'hundred of years'.

Why you people are repeating the nonsense?

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#117
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What you’re missing is 20M+ Russians were killed in the last world war. That kind of causes deep seated trust issues. 20M+ _Soviets_, not Russians. And USSR started that war ON THE SAME SIDE as Hitler, so they can blame themselves for 'trust issues'.

Mostly Russians. And 20M is the “official” number. There are independent estimates that put the casualties even higher. USSR was never “on the same side” as Hitler. It was never a part of The Axis. Stalin was just hoping that capitalist swine would take each other out and then he would roll in and take over. Same as the US was hoping Hitler would fuck up Russia and much of Europe so they could roll in and take over.…

>USSR was never “on the same side” as Hitler.

Really? When they were parading captured Poland or conspiring to divide Europe - they were on different sides?

>Weakened USSR was denied power in Western Europe.

Not weakened, far from it. And it was denied _capturing_ Western Europe. Basically they were saved from horrors of soviet 'communism'.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#118
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you’re missing is 20M+ Russians were killed in the last world war. That kind of causes deep seated trust issues. You’re also utterly missing any understanding of geopolitics. May I recommend “Flashpoints” by George Friedman and “World Order” by Henry Kissinger. This will open your eyes to how the world works, and why things are the way they are. And you should be worried if there are US nukes in you country. Tha…

> May I recommend “Flashpoints” by George Friedman and “World Order” by Henry Kissinger. Kissinger, seriously? I find it typical for neorealists to assume that if you're not also a neorealist, you "don't understand geopolitics". Cutthroat policy making for its own sake.

Kissinger, yes. Dude knows his geopolitics. The book is _really_ good, once you account for Kissinger’s well understood biases.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#119
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Invasion of Donetsk and Luhansk has never been proven. Crimea, sure I will concede that. For the record, I don’t approve of it, even though Crimea has been under Russia’s control for hundreds of years, and was only given to Ukraine by Khrushchev in the 50s.

Russia don't exist for 'hundred of years'. Why you people are repeating the nonsense?

Facepalm. Russia is 1155 years old.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#120
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I meant, internal political cruft. All the units I was ever in had some of this to a small degree which is unavoidable in any organization, but I'd work with some other unit that was like some kind of dystopian hellhole of contant internal strife. I don't know if it was just POG behavior in general or units with women or what, but every time I got a peek into how other units work, it was astonishing. Noth…

I'm glad you found a good unit. My company probably wasn't that bad, but bad enough. Part of the problem I think is that careerists naturally have a certain conflict of interest that affects how they treat their troops.

Yeah, I think probably the very nature of the Guard works against that pressure, since there is no "fast track" in the Guard. There is somewhat for officers, but enlisted folks have no such luxury. I mean, in the Guard, it's college kids, police officers, and guys coming off of active duty that need to serve the two or four remaining years of their enlistment. Almost everybody with military career ambition joins the active service instead of the Guard. So it's a lot more laid back in general. And these are literally people you'll spend a decade or more serving with. Guys that live near you and have families in your community. So it's a lot more tight-knit than active duty units. It's an older crowd, too. So while it can be cliquish to some degree, it definitely isn't like a lot of units I've seen which are heavily partisan and cliquish, and then made even worse by people with ambition that are willing to screw you to get ahead. The only other place in the military which I would consider equally laid back like the Guard is Special Forces. The best working relationships I ever had were with Special Forces units (and other Guard units). I suppose because they have nothing to prove, there's no friction like there is in regular Army units. Or Marines. I spent a lot of years deployed working with a lot of different folks. I like working with Marines, but they have the same issue as regular Army units, with cliquish behavior and people willing to step on others to get ahead. I totally know what you're talking about.
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