Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

theamericanconservative.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 124 posts

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#101

Post by megous »

maxxxxx wrote: post #27
RUG3Y wrote: post #2

After returning from Iraq, I was jaded. Young when I started, I thought we were doing a good thing. My idealism was stripped away pretty quickly. After being stateside for a while, there were rumors that our unit would be deploying to Afghanistan. A Lt. Colonel came and gave a presentation to the company about conditions there. During the Q.A., I stood up and asked, "Sir, what are we really doing there? For the life…

Afghanistan actually made more sense than Iraq since the Taliban were harboring Al Qaeda. So when 9/11 happened, it made sense to go after them. Iraq never made sense on the other hand.

Maybe on this surface level. But the intervention was and still is a nonsensical mess. Killing and locking up/torturing people left and right, whether pro or anti-taliban. Making new enemies from potentially pro-american tribes. Empowering some tribes against others, causing grief, resentment, rebellion and instability. Helping people with retribution against old rivals. The current conflict is already longer than the Soviet-Afghan war. Already 10x more civilians died than in 9/11. Really what's the purpose? It hardly can be justice at this point. In 2001 there were 45000 taliban fighters, US killed 60000, now there are around 60000 taliban. Clearly this is not a way to get rid of taliban, if that is the goal.

I'm reading this at the moment:

https://www.amazon.com/No-Good-Men-Among-Living/dp/080509179...

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#102

Post by chewz »

maxxxxx wrote: post #27
RUG3Y wrote: post #2

After returning from Iraq, I was jaded. Young when I started, I thought we were doing a good thing. My idealism was stripped away pretty quickly. After being stateside for a while, there were rumors that our unit would be deploying to Afghanistan. A Lt. Colonel came and gave a presentation to the company about conditions there. During the Q.A., I stood up and asked, "Sir, what are we really doing there? For the life…

Afghanistan actually made more sense than Iraq since the Taliban were harboring Al Qaeda. So when 9/11 happened, it made sense to go after them. Iraq never made sense on the other hand.

Taliban and Al Qaeda had been at each other throats especially post 9/11. There has never been love lost between them. It had been personal decision of Mullah Omar to put islamic solidarity over realpolitik.

Some clever policymaking - mixing military threats with financial incentive - could result in catching most of Al Qaeda possibly Bin-Laden included and avoid 16 year war. But B-1 coming with vengeance after mountain caves looked better on TV and as propaganda spin post 9/11.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#103

Post by fapjacks »

RUG3Y wrote: post #76
fapjacks wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got to be in the right job and the right unit. In my experience (~12 years across a handful of units and tours), infantry units are about ten thousand percent less political than POG units. Also Guard units are much more easy-going. I was not the only Mensa member in my last unit, and most of my best friends I met there. Being in the infantry in the Guard is a specific kind of environment, mostly college stude…

I was in an infantry unit, Marines. In general politics weren't a thing, if you mean American politics. Internal politics on the other hand are a big deal and it's astounding what people will do to one another to get promoted.

That's what I meant, internal political cruft. All the units I was ever in had some of this to a small degree which is unavoidable in any organization, but I'd work with some other unit that was like some kind of dystopian hellhole of contant internal strife. I don't know if it was just POG behavior in general or units with women or what, but every time I got a peek into how other units work, it was astonishing. Nothing even close to that in any of the Guard infantry units I was a part of over the years. In fact I'm thinking about reenlisting just to deploy with my old unit one more time. I can't imagine doing that in any other universe with any other unit.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#104

Post by 0xbear »

Sommersonn wrote: post #89
0xbear wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m Russian, but I don’t live in Russia, so I’m not exposed to “Russian propaganda” (you do seem to be exposed to the Ukrainian flavor of it though). I also commiserate with what happened on the Ukrainian side, and in every election where Putin ran I voted against Putin. I dislike the man, and think he will be harmful to Russia in the long term. That said, you also can’t deny the involvement of the US Department of s…

>The fundamental geostrategical priority for Russia is to maintain control (or at least good relations with, see Belarus) of the buffer regions around its densely populated regions. Invading your neighbours is ok, if you'll just call it 'good relations'? >That is why there are “tensions” when your neighbor begins discussions of entering NATO with a bit of USDS help. Invading Ukraine was not a 'tension' and had nothin…

Invasion of Donetsk and Luhansk has never been proven. Crimea, sure I will concede that. For the record, I don’t approve of it, even though Crimea has been under Russia’s control for hundreds of years, and was only given to Ukraine by Khrushchev in the 50s.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#106

Post by perilunar »

Is the title meant to be reference to Joe Haldeman's The Forever War?

The article doesn't mention it, but it is capitalised suggestively near the end. Also, Haldeman's novel is widely regarded as a criticism of the Vietnam war, and the article does discuss the lack of literature critical of recent wars.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#107

Post by skrebbel »

0xbear wrote: post #84
skrebbel wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point but at the same time my country has American nukes in it and we're not scared. Of course that's a ridiculous comparison given current tensions, but you're assuming that Russia and the USA / NATO somehow have to be enemies by definition and the rest of your argument follows from that. Why would a Russia-Mexico alliance need to be scary? Why would a USA-Ukraine alliance need to be scary? Hey, can't we…

What you’re missing is 20M+ Russians were killed in the last world war. That kind of causes deep seated trust issues. You’re also utterly missing any understanding of geopolitics. May I recommend “Flashpoints” by George Friedman and “World Order” by Henry Kissinger. This will open your eyes to how the world works, and why things are the way they are. And you should be worried if there are US nukes in you country. Tha…

> May I recommend “Flashpoints” by George Friedman and “World Order” by Henry Kissinger.

Kissinger, seriously? I find it typical for neorealists to assume that if you're not also a neorealist, you "don't understand geopolitics". Cutthroat policy making for its own sake.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#108

Post by le-mark »

mythrwy wrote: post #94
RUG3Y wrote: post #2

After returning from Iraq, I was jaded. Young when I started, I thought we were doing a good thing. My idealism was stripped away pretty quickly. After being stateside for a while, there were rumors that our unit would be deploying to Afghanistan. A Lt. Colonel came and gave a presentation to the company about conditions there. During the Q.A., I stood up and asked, "Sir, what are we really doing there? For the life…

What I personally think he should have said was this: "Good question Son. Glad you asked. See, the US needs to maintain a military sphere of influence between the resource rich regions of the former Soviet Union and the heavily populated regions of South East Asia. Additionally we would like something of a base between an emerging China and Russia, Pakistan and Iran. You've played "Risk" right? It's a strategic thing…

I agree, leaders ought to be able to handle these hard questions and still inspire. I'd expand your "answer" to include

"We know this is a tough mission which why we train hard. As leaders it's all of ours goal to get as many of you home alive as possible."

Believe it or not, they do train with techniques to (for example) charge machine gun positions without losing anyone; grenades, covering fire, and leap frogging. Unfortunately people will die, but a well trained team can do a lot.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#110

Post by RUG3Y »

fapjacks wrote: post #103
RUG3Y wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in an infantry unit, Marines. In general politics weren't a thing, if you mean American politics. Internal politics on the other hand are a big deal and it's astounding what people will do to one another to get promoted.

That's what I meant, internal political cruft. All the units I was ever in had some of this to a small degree which is unavoidable in any organization, but I'd work with some other unit that was like some kind of dystopian hellhole of contant internal strife. I don't know if it was just POG behavior in general or units with women or what, but every time I got a peek into how other units work, it was astonishing. Noth…

I'm glad you found a good unit. My company probably wasn't that bad, but bad enough. Part of the problem I think is that careerists naturally have a certain conflict of interest that affects how they treat their troops.
Post reply on HN