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Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

theamericanconservative.com

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Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#81

Post by slezyr »

0xbear wrote: post #73
slezyr wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A good example are Georgia and Ukraine: crises were created out of nothing to keep a festering boil on Russia’s ass. I'm ukrainian, can you tell me more? You know how maidan started? It was a peaceful protest and if cops simply ignored it, nothing would happen. Instead they did this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-talnbWQDpI This caused a bigger protest and response was the same. And etc and etc. At some moment t…

I’m Russian, but I don’t live in Russia, so I’m not exposed to “Russian propaganda” (you do seem to be exposed to the Ukrainian flavor of it though). I also commiserate with what happened on the Ukrainian side, and in every election where Putin ran I voted against Putin. I dislike the man, and think he will be harmful to Russia in the long term. That said, you also can’t deny the involvement of the US Department of s…

> you do seem to be exposed to the Ukrainian flavor of it though

What makes you think so?

> That said, you also can’t deny the involvement of the US Department of state in those events.

Can you deny existence of life beyond our planet? Neither side can prove or disprove both statements.

> That is why there are “tensions” when your neighbor begins discussions of entering NATO with a bit of USDS help. NATO means (eventually) foreign military bases and tactical nukes within 100km of Rostov-on-Don and Taganrog. This is fundamentally unacceptable to Russia, which they have been saying again and again to everyone who would listen years before things turned ugly. It’s not personal, it’s a question of national security for them. The US would have done the same or worse if Russia got Mexico to enter a military alliance with it.

Yes. Sounds if any neighbor make any decision, which russia won't like it grantees that glorious russians soldiers will happily jump to fight US forces there.

> NATO means (eventually) foreign military bases and tactical nukes within 100km of Rostov-on-Don and Taganrog.

So now we have damn nukes in Crimea. Russia moved them closer to NATO countries. I guess they need entire Moldova to secure those missiles in Crimea.

> The US would have done the same or worse if Russia got Mexico to enter a military alliance with it

Cuba? It wasn't good for it, but not as bad as here.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#82

Post by bryananderson »

Clubber wrote: post #50
bryananderson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of what you're saying, but I'm not buying that these things (peace, environmental action, science investment, etc) aren't happening because the masses are being stymied by the powers that be. On the contrary, I don't see the masses caring about these things at all. Do you? I don't see the majority of the people demanding action against (or even acknowledging the existence of) climate change. Nor do…

>We, the People, have made it abundantly clear that we are fine with the status quo. Whether you lean D or R or neither, do you really believe Trump was a vote for the status quo? The Ds got shut out and the Rs are breaking apart and can't even work as a party. Things are changing, I just don't know if it's for the better.

Okay, sorry: the status quo about things that matter.

Climate change, endless war, inequality, etc.

I just don't see the majority of the people doing anything about these issues.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#83

Post by [deleted] »

wfo wrote: post #51
bryananderson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of what you're saying, but I'm not buying that these things (peace, environmental action, science investment, etc) aren't happening because the masses are being stymied by the powers that be. On the contrary, I don't see the masses caring about these things at all. Do you? I don't see the majority of the people demanding action against (or even acknowledging the existence of) climate change. Nor do…

Well, poll people about universal healthcare. It's, what, 70% support? Poll people about legalization of marijuana. Poll people about private prisons. Poll people about police buying military weapons, tanks on streets. Poll people about asset forfeiture. Poll people about a living wage. Poll people about gerrymandering. Poll people about money in politics. Poll people about the revolving door. Poll people about stude…

[deleted]

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#84

Post by 0xbear »

skrebbel wrote: post #78
0xbear wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m Russian, but I don’t live in Russia, so I’m not exposed to “Russian propaganda” (you do seem to be exposed to the Ukrainian flavor of it though). I also commiserate with what happened on the Ukrainian side, and in every election where Putin ran I voted against Putin. I dislike the man, and think he will be harmful to Russia in the long term. That said, you also can’t deny the involvement of the US Department of s…

I see your point but at the same time my country has American nukes in it and we're not scared. Of course that's a ridiculous comparison given current tensions, but you're assuming that Russia and the USA / NATO somehow have to be enemies by definition and the rest of your argument follows from that. Why would a Russia-Mexico alliance need to be scary? Why would a USA-Ukraine alliance need to be scary? Hey, can't we…

What you’re missing is 20M+ Russians were killed in the last world war. That kind of causes deep seated trust issues. You’re also utterly missing any understanding of geopolitics. May I recommend “Flashpoints” by George Friedman and “World Order” by Henry Kissinger. This will open your eyes to how the world works, and why things are the way they are.

And you should be worried if there are US nukes in you country. That means you’re now in other ICBM-capable countries’ targeting computers, likely for no other reason. When shit hits the fan you’re gonna get nuked. Congratulations.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#85

Post by Clubber »

bryananderson wrote: post #82
Clubber wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We, the People, have made it abundantly clear that we are fine with the status quo. Whether you lean D or R or neither, do you really believe Trump was a vote for the status quo? The Ds got shut out and the Rs are breaking apart and can't even work as a party. Things are changing, I just don't know if it's for the better.

Okay, sorry: the status quo about things that matter. Climate change, endless war, inequality, etc. I just don't see the majority of the people doing anything about these issues.

What can they do? Don't say vote, it was a serious question.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#86

Post by UncleEntity »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #60
cat199 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As much as I love my country, at this point were there even a hint of a draft I would be the first to drive my teenage boys to the Canadian border -- a concept that would have astounded and enraged a younger me. Easier said than done for someone like me who never enlisted, but my take is having a draft would actually reduce the ability to wage war on a whim, since war would actually have the potential to impact mor…

Certainly, reinstating the draft would be a massive shift in how we've done things since the mid-70s. There's no guarantee that it will ever return, even if it was needed. But at some point, if you really do have a military-industrial complex pushing for eternal war (I'm still not sold on how much weight this faction actually carries relative to the incompetence or malevolence of a handful of high-level advisers) and…

IDK, my uncle got drafted during Vietnam and ended up as an embassy guard in Berlin -- guess it helped that my grandfather worked for some California senator...

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#87

Post by thephyber »

lexwraith wrote: post #32

I don't protest because I don't have time, nor would I think it's effective. People are just too busy for a war that is completely separated from them to care about it. I did care, at one point, but I too have been grinded down by both my experiences overseas and the people I served with. I enlisted in the USMC in 2005. 0311. Felt like I had been ready since I was 11 or 12. I went to Boot Camp, and then SOI. First ta…

> We were crusaders to be, and our religion was America

Amen, brother.

This entire country feels like a religion.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#88

Post by bryananderson »

Clubber wrote: post #85
bryananderson wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, sorry: the status quo about things that matter. Climate change, endless war, inequality, etc. I just don't see the majority of the people doing anything about these issues.

What can they do? Don't say vote, it was a serious question.

They really could vote though! As much as I hate him, Trump proved that you can win without the political and business establishments behind you.

There are meaningful structural reforms that need to be carried out that would make it easier for the people's will to be expressed (gerrymandering, electoral college, citizens united, etc etc).

But as of right now, no "establishment" is changing votes or shutting down "anti-establishment" media. If the people voted for a President AND Congress that would take real action on things like climate change, it would happen.

But do you see the majority of the people even trying to do that any time soon?

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#89

Post by Sommersonn »

0xbear wrote: post #73
slezyr wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A good example are Georgia and Ukraine: crises were created out of nothing to keep a festering boil on Russia’s ass. I'm ukrainian, can you tell me more? You know how maidan started? It was a peaceful protest and if cops simply ignored it, nothing would happen. Instead they did this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-talnbWQDpI This caused a bigger protest and response was the same. And etc and etc. At some moment t…

I’m Russian, but I don’t live in Russia, so I’m not exposed to “Russian propaganda” (you do seem to be exposed to the Ukrainian flavor of it though). I also commiserate with what happened on the Ukrainian side, and in every election where Putin ran I voted against Putin. I dislike the man, and think he will be harmful to Russia in the long term. That said, you also can’t deny the involvement of the US Department of s…

>The fundamental geostrategical priority for Russia is to maintain control (or at least good relations with, see Belarus) of the buffer regions around its densely populated regions.

Invading your neighbours is ok, if you'll just call it 'good relations'?

>That is why there are “tensions” when your neighbor begins discussions of entering NATO with a bit of USDS help.

Invading Ukraine was not a 'tension' and had nothing to do with NATO. Russia used another pretense.

Re: Where Are the Brave Military Voices Against the Forever War?

#90

Post by Sommersonn »

0xbear wrote: post #84
skrebbel wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point but at the same time my country has American nukes in it and we're not scared. Of course that's a ridiculous comparison given current tensions, but you're assuming that Russia and the USA / NATO somehow have to be enemies by definition and the rest of your argument follows from that. Why would a Russia-Mexico alliance need to be scary? Why would a USA-Ukraine alliance need to be scary? Hey, can't we…

What you’re missing is 20M+ Russians were killed in the last world war. That kind of causes deep seated trust issues. You’re also utterly missing any understanding of geopolitics. May I recommend “Flashpoints” by George Friedman and “World Order” by Henry Kissinger. This will open your eyes to how the world works, and why things are the way they are. And you should be worried if there are US nukes in you country. Tha…

>What you’re missing is 20M+ Russians were killed in the last world war. That kind of causes deep seated trust issues.

20M+ _Soviets_, not Russians.

And USSR started that war ON THE SAME SIDE as Hitler, so they can blame themselves for 'trust issues'.

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