Funny to see all these Non-Spanish commenters that think they know what they're talking about. My wife is from Barcelona. I just spent 2 weeks there. Most Catalonians think the split, and the minority of people seeking it are fucking stupid. They are the Trumpsters of Spain. Truly strange to see most people here supporting the separatists. I don't necessarily agree with Spain's methods of dealing with this but many o…
Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
101–110 of 243 posts
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
That constitution was written and signed under Military watch. Let's not forget Franco, a genocidal dictator, died of old age while still in power, he was not ousted by democratic forces. And no one ever went to jail for the dictatorship. Many in power during the dictatorship remained in power for a long time after it "ended". The current constitution is a reflection of that time, where Spain was a nascent democracy…
A lot of people were killed under Franco's mandate, but he wasn't genocidal, Hitler was (Jews, Gipsies, etc): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide
> Historians of the Spanish Civil War concur that the death toll of the White Terror (~58 000–400,000), because of its extent and duration,[12][12][13][14][1][2] was greater than the death toll of the Red Terror (38,000 – ~172,344 ).[15][16][17] The political repression of the White Terror was formal policy of the Nationalist forces during the Spanish Civil War, and of the government of Gen. Franco until 1945 — six years after the war's end in 1939.[18][19] In 2015, the government of Spain refused Spanish historians access to the pertinent government archives, open to foreign historians, which would allow determining the physical whereabouts and political fate of victims of the White Terror.[20]
> The main goal of the White Terror was to terrify the civil population who opposed the coup,[88][89][90] eliminate the supporters of the Second Spanish Republic and the militants of the leftist parties,[91][92][93] and because of this, some historians have considered the White Terror a genocide.[94][95] In fact, one of the leaders of the coup, General Emilio Mola said:[96]
> "It is necessary to spread terror. We have to create the impression of mastery eliminating without scruples or hesitation all those who do not think as we do. There can be no cowardice. If we hesitate one moment and fail to proceed with the greatest determination, we will not win. Anyone who helps or hides a Communist or a supporter of the Popular Front will be shot."
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#103It's pretty sad to see how weak some of the recent democracies are. At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves, even though many thought an independent Scotland would be a huge mistake. Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto su…
Since 1977, Catalans had participated in 35 free elections, and in 3 referendums. The Catalans have their own government, and there are politicians born in Catalonia successfully in the Spanish Parliament, and in the European Parliament.
Where you don't see freedom?
If someone wants to change the Spanish Constitution, there's a legal way to do it.
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’re not in a democracy, it’s a representative parliament system. Same almost worldwide. There’s a difference. Many of modern so called democracies though referendums are not the best way to solve these issues. Read up on how it worked for the Ancient Greeks or how the American constitution fathers talk about “direct democracy”. Then think how it worked out for Brexit. It’s nothign new: ancient Greeks also got fire…
So you are saying you want Spain to bring back the Fascists?
I’m saying that representative parliament works, and there’s a way to solve this using this worldwide system. Direct democracy is not what we have, America’s founders considered it “anarchy” as a matter of fact. Read up.
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#105It's pretty sad to see how weak some of the recent democracies are. At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves, even though many thought an independent Scotland would be a huge mistake. Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto su…
It's been 80 years since the Spanish Civil War, yet I can't help but wonder whether its influence is being felt today with BS maneuvers like this. What would Spain be like today if Franco hadn't been helped into power in the 30s by (among other infamous parties who shall remain nameless) Ford Motors, General Motors, and the Catholic Church?
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#106When I was dating a Croatian girl, I asked her which country reminded her most of pre-war Yugoslavia. "Spain," she said, without skipping a beat. "It's eerily similar. All power and wealth flowing to the capital in the center of the country? Check. Generations-long repression of regional, cultural, and linguistic diversity? Check. Awkward tendency to rewrite history to avoid open discussion of WWII-era atrocities? Ch…
The country that looks most likely to split (in Europe) to me is Belgium, not Spain. But then predicting geopolitical changes is the same as predicting Black Swans: the Berlin wall will stand forever right until the moment it wont; The Soviet Union is just there until it is no more; nothing can stand the Nazi war machine; those scrappy colonists have no chance against the English empire.
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, well, well, well... You should read the constitution and compare it to what the catalonian establishment is doing. The rule of law applies also to politicians.
That constitution was written and signed under Military watch. Let's not forget Franco, a genocidal dictator, died of old age while still in power, he was not ousted by democratic forces. And no one ever went to jail for the dictatorship. Many in power during the dictatorship remained in power for a long time after it "ended". The current constitution is a reflection of that time, where Spain was a nascent democracy…
And Spanish people supported the Constitution with their vote on a large scale.
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the "oppressed" Sure, how are they oppressed? In 1938 Barcelona was bombed because the army wanted to destroy the republic and what existed of Catalonia autonomy. So any existing Catalonia autonomy or democracy of any form was crushed in 1939, replaced by a military dictatorship, and only started to recover in 1977-1978. The Spanish dictatorship killed thousands of Catalans after the 1939 takeover. The same forces…
What forces are you talking about? The fascist killed Spaniards from all Spain, not only Catalonia. In any case, the republic was outspokenly against the Catalan independence. Azaña was quoted to write in a letter “before alllwing for an independent Catalonia, I’ll give it to Franco”. Please don’t revise history, is the most fascist thing you can do. The problem with the referendum results is that they can’t be accur…
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#109It's pretty sad to see how weak some of the recent democracies are. At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves, even though many thought an independent Scotland would be a huge mistake. Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto su…
You’re not in a democracy, it’s a representative parliament system. Same almost worldwide. There’s a difference. Many of modern so called democracies though referendums are not the best way to solve these issues. Read up on how it worked for the Ancient Greeks or how the American constitution fathers talk about “direct democracy”. Then think how it worked out for Brexit. It’s nothign new: ancient Greeks also got fire…
I personally prefer a referendum.
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, well, well, well... You should read the constitution and compare it to what the catalonian establishment is doing. The rule of law applies also to politicians.
Oh, you are from Gijón. Using the constitution as some sort of shield / holy bible that can't ever possibly be changed IS what show the weakness of Spanish democracy. In the end, governments are there to serve their people. They don't make sense as entities on their own. They represent a group of people who chooses to be represented by their government. If the government attacks the people and refuses to hear to what…
What people can't do is play outside the Law in a Democracy.