Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

domainnamewire.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 243 posts

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#31

Post by nsnick »

gfiorav wrote: post #29
tomjen3 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should of course be sceptical, but at the same time it seems that Spain is active so heavy handed in this and related matters that they are almost trying to make this go violent.

This is the thing: the referendum is ilegal according to constitution (agreed on by Catalans in the 70s). We can debate if it should or should not be ilegal, but it’s a different thing. These actions are taken to avoid violating the constitutional order, not the vote directly. If the constitution is being infringed, you can’t make exceptions.

We can also debate whether the response of the Spanish government is out of line. Nothing will bring about Catalan independence faster than heavy handed repression by the Spanish government.

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#32

Post by nsnick »

627467 wrote: post #15
iagooar wrote: post #6

It's pretty sad to see how weak some of the recent democracies are. At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves, even though many thought an independent Scotland would be a huge mistake. Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto su…

Playing devils advocate: Spain has a constitution that was signed by Catalonian reps in the 70s. It's the constitution which prevents the referendum from happening. (I believe for a referendum to be constitutional, Spain's "federal" parliament would have to agree to it and the whole country would have to vote). Personally I feel this whole comparison between the 2 situations highlights the cultural differences: conse…

Government rule by the consent of the governed. It looks like Catalonia is revoking that consent.

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#34

Post by teh_klev »

tbatchelli wrote: post #23
pfortuny wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, well, well, well... You should read the constitution and compare it to what the catalonian establishment is doing. The rule of law applies also to politicians.

That constitution was written and signed under Military watch. Let's not forget Franco, a genocidal dictator, died of old age while still in power, he was not ousted by democratic forces. And no one ever went to jail for the dictatorship. Many in power during the dictatorship remained in power for a long time after it "ended". The current constitution is a reflection of that time, where Spain was a nascent democracy…

Thank you.

People forget, democracy is a process, it doesn't just stop some time in the past.

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#35

Post by tomjen3 »

pfortuny wrote: post #10
iagooar wrote: post #6

It's pretty sad to see how weak some of the recent democracies are. At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves, even though many thought an independent Scotland would be a huge mistake. Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto su…

Well, well, well, well... You should read the constitution and compare it to what the catalonian establishment is doing. The rule of law applies also to politicians.

Oh it probably violates the constitution - but the right thing to do is to either let it slide or admend it. The law is supposed to serve the people, right now Spain is just using it as a bully platform.

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#37

Post by tomjen3 »

monodeldiablo wrote: post #25

When I was dating a Croatian girl, I asked her which country reminded her most of pre-war Yugoslavia. "Spain," she said, without skipping a beat. "It's eerily similar. All power and wealth flowing to the capital in the center of the country? Check. Generations-long repression of regional, cultural, and linguistic diversity? Check. Awkward tendency to rewrite history to avoid open discussion of WWII-era atrocities? Ch…

The country that looks most likely to split (in Europe) to me is Belgium, not Spain.

But then predicting geopolitical changes is the same as predicting Black Swans: the Berlin wall will stand forever right until the moment it wont; The Soviet Union is just there until it is no more; nothing can stand the Nazi war machine; those scrappy colonists have no chance against the English empire.

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#38

Post by farresito »

iagooar wrote: post #18
pfortuny wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, well, well, well... You should read the constitution and compare it to what the catalonian establishment is doing. The rule of law applies also to politicians.

Oh, you are from Gijón. Using the constitution as some sort of shield / holy bible that can't ever possibly be changed IS what show the weakness of Spanish democracy. In the end, governments are there to serve their people. They don't make sense as entities on their own. They represent a group of people who chooses to be represented by their government. If the government attacks the people and refuses to hear to what…

Thank you. It's quite surprising how hard it is for a lot of people to understand this. Listening to the Spanish president say that what's going on in Catalonia is anti-democratic and that democracy is following the constitution is the most frustrating thing you can hear, and I'm surprised people use that argument against the pro-independence movement.

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#39

Post by gfiorav »

iagooar wrote: post #6

It's pretty sad to see how weak some of the recent democracies are. At least in the UK the government allowed people to express themselves, even though many thought an independent Scotland would be a huge mistake. Now compare that with the Spanish government. Banning a referendum, raiding political parties and Catalonian government offices, arresting government officials, flirting with far-right politics, de-facto su…

You’re not in a democracy, it’s a representative parliament system. Same almost worldwide. There’s a difference.

Many of modern so called democracies though referendums are not the best way to solve these issues. Read up on how it worked for the Ancient Greeks or how the American constitution fathers talk about “direct democracy”.

Then think how it worked out for Brexit. It’s nothign new: ancient Greeks also got fired up by propaganda and later regretted their own decisions. Socrates came up with his “government of the fit” watching his contemporaries claim for bad things only to regret it when it was too late.

Essentially: a referendum is like saying “every single citizen has enough information and vision to do whatever is best for the country”. I find that pretty optimistic to say the least.

Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices

#40

Post by dazc »

monodeldiablo wrote: post #25

When I was dating a Croatian girl, I asked her which country reminded her most of pre-war Yugoslavia. "Spain," she said, without skipping a beat. "It's eerily similar. All power and wealth flowing to the capital in the center of the country? Check. Generations-long repression of regional, cultural, and linguistic diversity? Check. Awkward tendency to rewrite history to avoid open discussion of WWII-era atrocities? Ch…

Yugoslavia and Spain are two different scenarios entirely.
Post reply on HN