Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

pilotonline.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 216 posts

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#131

Post by jasonmaydie »

cstross wrote: post #86
jedc wrote: post #17

Former submariner here. My thoughts echo those of a ex-submariner group I'm a part of -- it makes sense across the board. It's 1) a cost saving measure, 2) WAY easier to get replacements, and 3) WAAAYY easier to train new people to use it safely and efficiently.

I'd have two big reservations about this. 1. The Virginia class was first commissioned in 2004, with a 33 year design life. The XBox 360 was first shown in public in 2005, with a design life of ...? Yup, it's consumer electronics, with a design life of much less than 33 years. Even though there are on the order of 80-100M of them in the wild, by and by XBox 360s and replacement parts will be getting scarce. (If you t…

first concern doesn't seem like a big issue, this is a standard usb connector controller not a custom built device so it should be easy to replace.

second concern should be taken seriously however.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#132

Post by Eridrus »

jedc wrote: post #17

Former submariner here. My thoughts echo those of a ex-submariner group I'm a part of -- it makes sense across the board. It's 1) a cost saving measure, 2) WAY easier to get replacements, and 3) WAAAYY easier to train new people to use it safely and efficiently.

Everything in this article sounded great except the submarine commander seemingly considering just running down to the local market to get a controller if theirs broke.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#133

Post by ams6110 »

amigoingtodie wrote: post #107
danschumann wrote: post #11

That's a good sign. I'm sure the alternative is getting a quote from some contracter who would want to reinvent the wheel for millions of dollars, and probably a worse result. Microsoft already did the legwork of development. More consumer products ( as long as there are sufficient fallbacks / quality control ), in military operations, is a-ok in my book.

Here is an alternative: http://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/About/Penny-Giles.aspx

To be fair, their stuff is very good.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#134

Post by LibertyBeta »

cstross wrote: post #86
jedc wrote: post #17

Former submariner here. My thoughts echo those of a ex-submariner group I'm a part of -- it makes sense across the board. It's 1) a cost saving measure, 2) WAY easier to get replacements, and 3) WAAAYY easier to train new people to use it safely and efficiently.

I'd have two big reservations about this. 1. The Virginia class was first commissioned in 2004, with a 33 year design life. The XBox 360 was first shown in public in 2005, with a design life of ...? Yup, it's consumer electronics, with a design life of much less than 33 years. Even though there are on the order of 80-100M of them in the wild, by and by XBox 360s and replacement parts will be getting scarce. (If you t…

Good points, but I think we can work around them.

1) As others have said xinput is pervasive as this point. If the Xbox 360 controller becomes hard to source then I'm sure a replacement xinput derived device will still be around. If not, it's a well documented standard and new devices can be made.

2) This leans on my first response. Xinput is the winner here, not the Xbox controller. If after testing they can't harden it then we have a lot of other options, up to and including a bespoke controller.

I guess what I'm saying is that video game controls are so much fun for a reason. They 'just work'. And while there is a little bit of dystopian sheen to seeing video games become the source for defacto tooling for war machines I'm always for a simplification of man/machine interactions.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#136

Post by foldr »

rmc wrote: post #117
GunlogAlm wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally doubt that scarcity will be too big an issue with Xbox 360 controllers for the foreseeable future — development of new 360 hardware only ended in April last year. I can think of no piece of consumer electronics cheaper to source and repair than the 360 controller. I'm sure, though, that both 1. and 2. are concerns the US Navy will have given ample consideration before making this move.

The SNES came out 27 years ago. Can you still get controllers for it? (Imagine if current submarines were using SNES controllers... )

Yes, very easily and cheaply:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TRIXES-Retro-Replacement-Controller...

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#137

Post by coredog64 »

ivix wrote: post #74
alexasmyths wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not ridiculous at all, it just seems that way. It takes a lot of work and investment to design a 'space grade product'. When you only ever sell 50 of them - total, well the price will be high. Imagine if only 500 iPhones were ever sold - how much would they cost in order for Apple to make a profit? It's just the weird economics of small batch products that makes the price seem bonkers, there's no volume to sprea…

I can easily believe that. Next time you're sat in a meeting with 5 other highly paid software developers, discussing a two line bugfix, think about how much that bugfix will have cost.

I would love to see an Outlook plugin that estimates meeting costs using salary band information for attendees. It would help keep rambling to a minimum.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#138

Post by Sebguer »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #128
chuckdries wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The xinput gamepad is a pervasive standard, with plenty of third party hardware implementations and wide software support across operating systems. Heck, even Chrome and Firefox have JS apis to access xbox controller input. Eventually it will be surpassed, but it's far more available and supported than whatever they were doing before, and its simple enough to be easy to continue to manufacture. Also, do we really thi…

> Knock offs are $20 on Amazon, they're very simple devices. And that goes right into cstross' second point...

Their point was very obviously not that we should buy the $20 knock-offs, but that building these devices is very simple and can be done cheaply.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#139

Post by vlunkr »

foldr wrote: post #136
rmc wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SNES came out 27 years ago. Can you still get controllers for it? (Imagine if current submarines were using SNES controllers... )

Yes, very easily and cheaply: https://www.amazon.co.uk/TRIXES-Retro-Replacement-Controller...

To be fair that controller is probably garbage. I've bought similar ones before.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#140

Post by foldr »

vlunkr wrote: post #139
foldr wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, very easily and cheaply: https://www.amazon.co.uk/TRIXES-Retro-Replacement-Controller...

To be fair that controller is probably garbage. I've bought similar ones before.

True. This one has good reviews, FWIW:

https://www.amazon.com/CirKa-S91-Premium-Controller-SNES/dp/...

Post reply on HN