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U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

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Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#101

Post by newman8r »

mih wrote: post #61
newman8r wrote: post #46

I have been using an xbox one controller instead of a mouse for 4 or 5 months now. I use the qjoypad package to map the thing. It's really great and I believe it's why my chronic right-side back pain has completely vanished. So as someone who uses this type of input device, I think it's a great fit for military use.

I started doing this too, but use Antimicro ( https://github.com/AntiMicro/antimicro ) instead of Qjoypad, since I find it to be more configurable. I don't use it as a replacement for a mouse but a keyboard instead. I configure it for specific apps where I need repetetive keystrokes, such as : - VLC when I need an easier way to seek media by various amounts, speed-up/slow-down the video, play next in the playlist. Us…

I'm going to take a look at that

I ran into the precision issue as well, but my brain eventually figured out how to deal with it. I use the left analog pad for higher precision tasks

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#102

Post by amigoingtodie »

jedc wrote: post #17

Former submariner here. My thoughts echo those of a ex-submariner group I'm a part of -- it makes sense across the board. It's 1) a cost saving measure, 2) WAY easier to get replacements, and 3) WAAAYY easier to train new people to use it safely and efficiently.

So, now we can have a submarine exploit delivered via a controller?

Consumers can compete with the military for replacement parts, or will taxpayers fund the militarization of the 360 controllers?

Are these being purchased directly from Microsoft or procured via Gamestop?

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#103

Post by sfifs »

gruturo wrote: post #87
alexasmyths wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requirements analysis, systems analysis and research (when you do things in space absolutely everything needs to be looked at), materials design and test (materials behave differently in space). Fixtures? How are they affixed to satelites? You can't just 'glue' them. The type of 'screws' are pretty important. This might require a lot of back and forth. Each step of the process involves internal review and review by t…

Don't you have (shouldn't you have) a "certified parts library" so you don't need to go through the process of studying which material is needed for a handle, use standard and pre-certified screws to affix them, which you already know won't come off due to vibrations during launch, and won't accidentally fuse once in space ( https://www.quora.com/If-two-metals-touch-in-space-they-fuse... ). Basically do it right, so…

What makes you think people would NOT have consulted paat experience? Given this is space parts, there simply may not have been enough experience.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#104

Post by amigoingtodie »

microcolonel wrote: post #30
0xbear wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The periscope company will just CNC it out of a solid block of titanium then. Microsoft wouldn’t want their business. It’s a relatively small amount of money for very large amount of pain in the rear. And even if they did want DoDs business, DoD wouldn’t deal with them directly, instead they’d subcontract them through one of those giant contracting companies with “Federal” in their name.

> DoD wouldn’t deal with them directly Why wouldn't they deal with them directly? They already do! I understand being cynical, but you have to admit you're making a satire of this system, no matter how ridiculous it is in reality.

I waa not aware the DoD directly purchases hardware from Microsoft.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#105

Post by sfifs »

cube00 wrote: post #100
vacri wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) I don't really understand this criticism - why would a bespoke milspec controller be any more likely to be around than a widely documented consumer controller? Which do you think is easier to replace today, or get a manufacturer to remake: a model M from 1984, or a custom machine keyboard from 1984. Hell, wind the back another 10 years - I worked in a hospital with a really old bit of kit. It was a Siemens EEG mac…

Is Microsoft going to be willing to share their original specs so you can build an identical controller years down the track? Given we're talking military here reverse engineering to remake wouldn't be acceptable.

Given it's military, they're very likely already sharing NOW.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#106

Post by amigoingtodie »

gambiting wrote: post #90
mxfh wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What stops anyone from soldering (the USB) and/or hot-glueing those parts on? The tradeoff between customizability and ruggedness is quite easy to fix. In my experience the buttons most likely to break are the LB and RB shoulder ones, since if the controller falls it might take out the switch on direct impact with it's full weight.

Well, nothing, but my guess is that it needs to work straight out of the box for military use, you can't be hot-gluing buttons and cables on equipment that's used on a submarine.

Thank you.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#107

Post by amigoingtodie »

danschumann wrote: post #11

That's a good sign. I'm sure the alternative is getting a quote from some contracter who would want to reinvent the wheel for millions of dollars, and probably a worse result. Microsoft already did the legwork of development. More consumer products ( as long as there are sufficient fallbacks / quality control ), in military operations, is a-ok in my book.

Here is an alternative:

http://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/About/Penny-Giles.aspx

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#108

Post by mxfh »

gambiting wrote: post #90
mxfh wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What stops anyone from soldering (the USB) and/or hot-glueing those parts on? The tradeoff between customizability and ruggedness is quite easy to fix. In my experience the buttons most likely to break are the LB and RB shoulder ones, since if the controller falls it might take out the switch on direct impact with it's full weight.

Well, nothing, but my guess is that it needs to work straight out of the box for military use, you can't be hot-gluing buttons and cables on equipment that's used on a submarine.

Why not? Have a professional supplier handle the mods to mil-spec and you have a mil-grade product. If it fits the requirements you shouldn't just rule out something just because it sounds DIY.

The process might double the price, but still cheaper than anything custom ordered. Glue is a perfectly acceptable solution if done right. Plastic welding is also an option.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#109

Post by briandear »

jack1243star wrote: post #89
celdon25 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you have the issue of EMP hardening. Not sure if that is a problem in submarines. But elsewhere, you have a serious defensive flaw if an EMP attack can disable military hardware.

Is there an EMP capable torpedo though? They seem useless in water. Other than the nuclear ones of course...

I think the durability of an Xbox controller is of no consequence against a nuclear torpedo.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#110

Post by skj »

mysterydip wrote: post #98
c0m0 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. This is easily solved by buying enough supply of controllers right now to last for 33 years. 2. Are you sure the non-commercial version come from and doesn't have embedded processor, and how do you know it's really good quality and not just very expensive because of low quantity production?

"Lifetime buys" are a thing, and also can be expensive because you don't always have a good estimate when doing so. Either you buy too many and waste $ with excess stock, or you don't buy enough then 10 years later have to scrounge for more stock at higher prices, or come up with a replacement. It's a tough problem.

Next to the cost of a submarine I believe "excess stock" inefficiencies will be unnoticeable. Probably compared to the cost of custom hardware, too.
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