Why not PS4 controllers ?
How do you think that would go over with the sailors? "Government awards military contract to foreign company."
ah! i was thinking it might had been related to usability... nice one thanks :D
U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines
71–80 of 216 posts
Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines
#72Former submariner here. My thoughts echo those of a ex-submariner group I'm a part of -- it makes sense across the board. It's 1) a cost saving measure, 2) WAY easier to get replacements, and 3) WAAAYY easier to train new people to use it safely and efficiently.
Former defense contractor here. I trust Microsoft to have put more time and money into making that controller maximally usable and useful than whatever subcontractor would have made the thing otherwise.
Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
IPhone has a lot of R&D required for it to do what it does. How much R&D is reasonable for some "really simple handles?"
Requirements analysis, systems analysis and research (when you do things in space absolutely everything needs to be looked at), materials design and test (materials behave differently in space). Fixtures? How are they affixed to satelites? You can't just 'glue' them. The type of 'screws' are pretty important. This might require a lot of back and forth. Each step of the process involves internal review and review by t…
You've said why it is expensive. Not why it needs to be expensive.
Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
>we made these aluminum 'handles' for the arm to grab onto. I mean - really, really basic stuff. $200K each. Engineering, overhead, testing, sales yada yada - we only ever made a few dozen. That sounds ridiculous. Did your coworkers have a strong opinion of that, or not care?
It's not ridiculous at all, it just seems that way. It takes a lot of work and investment to design a 'space grade product'. When you only ever sell 50 of them - total, well the price will be high. Imagine if only 500 iPhones were ever sold - how much would they cost in order for Apple to make a profit? It's just the weird economics of small batch products that makes the price seem bonkers, there's no volume to sprea…
I can easily believe that.
Next time you're sat in a meeting with 5 other highly paid software developers, discussing a two line bugfix, think about how much that bugfix will have cost.
Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines
#75Former submariner here. My thoughts echo those of a ex-submariner group I'm a part of -- it makes sense across the board. It's 1) a cost saving measure, 2) WAY easier to get replacements, and 3) WAAAYY easier to train new people to use it safely and efficiently.
Former defense contractor here. I trust Microsoft to have put more time and money into making that controller maximally usable and useful than whatever subcontractor would have made the thing otherwise.
"Subcontractor" :)
Yeah they have got millions and millions of hours testing down. Great to see them not falling victim to the "not invented here" syndrome.
Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
Great, now China's going to put malware into every Xbox controller on the off-chance it gets inserted into a USN submarine /s
This is something to worry about. USB hosts and devices identify themselves - malicious firmware embedded in the Xbox controller could check if it's connected to a real Xbox, compared to a Windows PC, or a submarine, and act (or misbehave) accordingly. And what is the plan in 20-30 years' time when the submarines are still in action but the controllers stopped being made? I get the feeling we'll see Navy personnel bi…
USB hosts do not identify themselves to devices.
Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines
#77It's kinda funny and pragmatic at the same time. Soon tanks and planes will be controlled this way too. It will be much easier to train all the gamers for war in reality.
On the other hand, it further "gamifies" war instruments and removes military personnel from their actions.
Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines
#78This is one of those simple ideas that makes a lot of sense. I'm glad to hear there are teams working to reduce costs and improve UX for the military. Microsoft obviously did a lot of user testing with their controller, but they must have been optimizing for a certain consumer price point as well. It makes me wonder what sort of controller you would have if they spent all that focus on usability, but with the same $3…
Theres an entire market for high-end gaming controllers, from both Microsoft[0] and other manufacturers[1][2]. I had a chance to try out the Elite - they feel great, very solid build. The requirements for gamers might be a bit diff to what a submariner would require - but I could imagine the Navy would prefer the sturdiness of these high end controllers and that gamers prefer wired and low-latency. [0] https://www.xb…
The weak point of the elite controller(and I do have one) is the micro-usb port. I imagine it's completely unacceptable on a submarine that you suddenly lose control of the periscope because the cable is a bit dodgy and doesn't sit in the port properly. Wired X360 controllers have a major advantage here. Also if you drop the Elite controller the dpad and the analog sticks will fly in all directions because they are held by magnets.
Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Requirements analysis, systems analysis and research (when you do things in space absolutely everything needs to be looked at), materials design and test (materials behave differently in space). Fixtures? How are they affixed to satelites? You can't just 'glue' them. The type of 'screws' are pretty important. This might require a lot of back and forth. Each step of the process involves internal review and review by t…
You've said why it is expensive. Not why it needs to be expensive.
That's literally a salary of 2 upper-grade engineers for a year (for a piece).
There's literally _no way_ it had been done in the most efficient manner.
Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines
#80lolasymmetriccontrollers