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U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

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Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#51

Post by wallace_f »

alexasmyths wrote: post #45
matt4077 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Musk biography is a pretty good source for that question. From what I remember, SpaceX produces a rather extreme fraction of its parts in-house (something like 80%–it's been a while). What they don't create themselves, they often source from the consumer market. They avoid the tradition space industry supplies wherever possible because they have had success with off-the-shelve parts available for a fraction of th…

To be fair 'space rated' does have meaning. There is 'off the shelf', 'automotive', 'aeronautic', 'unmanned space' and 'manned space' quality gear. If you think about it - when you're flying a plane, the 'tolerances' for everything just has to be higher - there's much more at risk. In a complex system, there are a lot of single points of failure that can cause haywire. Unsurprisingly, the tolerances for 'unmanned' vs…

>we made these aluminum 'handles' for the arm to grab onto. I mean - really, really basic stuff. $200K each. Engineering, overhead, testing, sales yada yada - we only ever made a few dozen.

That sounds ridiculous. Did your coworkers have a strong opinion of that, or not care?

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#53

Post by metaphor »

mkhalil wrote: post #7

I also am one to agree that I think this is a great step forward with maybe trimming off our huge military expenditures, particularly ones that come out as "leaks" because they are so embarrassed of them. I'm sure the U.S. navy will be taking a look at the hardware and maybe even flashing their own firmware on them, lest we open ourselves up for a catastrophic backdoor.

> I'm sure the U.S. navy will be taking a look at the hardware and maybe even flashing their own firmware on them...

Doubt it. If Lockheed properly addressed IA during design review, focus will be on the host, not the controller.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#54

Post by alexasmyths »

wallace_f wrote: post #51
alexasmyths wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair 'space rated' does have meaning. There is 'off the shelf', 'automotive', 'aeronautic', 'unmanned space' and 'manned space' quality gear. If you think about it - when you're flying a plane, the 'tolerances' for everything just has to be higher - there's much more at risk. In a complex system, there are a lot of single points of failure that can cause haywire. Unsurprisingly, the tolerances for 'unmanned' vs…

>we made these aluminum 'handles' for the arm to grab onto. I mean - really, really basic stuff. $200K each. Engineering, overhead, testing, sales yada yada - we only ever made a few dozen. That sounds ridiculous. Did your coworkers have a strong opinion of that, or not care?

It's not ridiculous at all, it just seems that way.

It takes a lot of work and investment to design a 'space grade product'.

When you only ever sell 50 of them - total, well the price will be high.

Imagine if only 500 iPhones were ever sold - how much would they cost in order for Apple to make a profit?

It's just the weird economics of small batch products that makes the price seem bonkers, there's no volume to spread the fixed costs over.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#55

Post by rijoja »

newman8r wrote: post #46

I have been using an xbox one controller instead of a mouse for 4 or 5 months now. I use the qjoypad package to map the thing. It's really great and I believe it's why my chronic right-side back pain has completely vanished. So as someone who uses this type of input device, I think it's a great fit for military use.

I would be interested in learning more about your experiences using this? Have you been controlling a PC and what are your experiences with entering text and so forth? Hope you can find the time to answer all my stupid questions!

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#56

Post by otimepad222 »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #27
alexasmyths wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+10. This should be done in many more places. Though with 'cost plus' contracts... providers are incented to create crazy new things for every problem. If there weren't moral questions around this - it would be amazing to see a NATO forces 'hackathon' where people create top gear/tech for soldiers with off-the-shelf components and software. I have a funny feeling that 'if they put their hearts to it' - there'd be no…

"Hacking for Defense" is a step in this direction E.g http://hacking4defense.stanford.edu

"Defense" :) always have to laugh about that part

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#57

Post by wallace_f »

alexasmyths wrote: post #54
wallace_f wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we made these aluminum 'handles' for the arm to grab onto. I mean - really, really basic stuff. $200K each. Engineering, overhead, testing, sales yada yada - we only ever made a few dozen. That sounds ridiculous. Did your coworkers have a strong opinion of that, or not care?

It's not ridiculous at all, it just seems that way. It takes a lot of work and investment to design a 'space grade product'. When you only ever sell 50 of them - total, well the price will be high. Imagine if only 500 iPhones were ever sold - how much would they cost in order for Apple to make a profit? It's just the weird economics of small batch products that makes the price seem bonkers, there's no volume to sprea…

IPhone has a lot of R&D required for it to do what it does.

How much R&D is reasonable for some "really simple handles?"

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#59

Post by Cthulhu_ »

jedc wrote: post #17

Former submariner here. My thoughts echo those of a ex-submariner group I'm a part of -- it makes sense across the board. It's 1) a cost saving measure, 2) WAY easier to get replacements, and 3) WAAAYY easier to train new people to use it safely and efficiently.

It's not new either, I saw people using xbox controllers to control drones 10ish years ago.

But yeah, why use custom controls when an off-the-shelf product with 15+ years of development iterations which is produced in the tens of millions a year will probably never beat it? A good example of going against Not Invented Here syndrome.

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