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U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

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Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#61

Post by mih »

newman8r wrote: post #46

I have been using an xbox one controller instead of a mouse for 4 or 5 months now. I use the qjoypad package to map the thing. It's really great and I believe it's why my chronic right-side back pain has completely vanished. So as someone who uses this type of input device, I think it's a great fit for military use.

I started doing this too, but use Antimicro (https://github.com/AntiMicro/antimicro) instead of Qjoypad, since I find it to be more configurable. I don't use it as a replacement for a mouse but a keyboard instead. I configure it for specific apps where I need repetetive keystrokes, such as :

- VLC when I need an easier way to seek media by various amounts, speed-up/slow-down the video, play next in the playlist. Using the controller frees me from being hunched on the keyboard

- Any document reader to navigate pages

It can of course be configured as a replacement for a mouse, but the precision in my experience was way lower.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#62

Post by alexasmyths »

wallace_f wrote: post #57
alexasmyths wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not ridiculous at all, it just seems that way. It takes a lot of work and investment to design a 'space grade product'. When you only ever sell 50 of them - total, well the price will be high. Imagine if only 500 iPhones were ever sold - how much would they cost in order for Apple to make a profit? It's just the weird economics of small batch products that makes the price seem bonkers, there's no volume to sprea…

IPhone has a lot of R&D required for it to do what it does. How much R&D is reasonable for some "really simple handles?"

Requirements analysis, systems analysis and research (when you do things in space absolutely everything needs to be looked at), materials design and test (materials behave differently in space). Fixtures? How are they affixed to satelites? You can't just 'glue' them. The type of 'screws' are pretty important. This might require a lot of back and forth.

Each step of the process involves internal review and review by the customer - i.e. Japanese space agency, and can take weeks.

Testing requires a massive 'clean room' which is expensive to maintain. And you don't just make these things anywhere - tolerances have to be perfect.

Not only is it tough engineering, it's a lot of bureaucracy.

And then overhead: IT, support, software, flights, hotels yada yada yada. It adds up.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#63

Post by rangibaby »

alexasmyths wrote: post #45
matt4077 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Musk biography is a pretty good source for that question. From what I remember, SpaceX produces a rather extreme fraction of its parts in-house (something like 80%–it's been a while). What they don't create themselves, they often source from the consumer market. They avoid the tradition space industry supplies wherever possible because they have had success with off-the-shelve parts available for a fraction of th…

To be fair 'space rated' does have meaning. There is 'off the shelf', 'automotive', 'aeronautic', 'unmanned space' and 'manned space' quality gear. If you think about it - when you're flying a plane, the 'tolerances' for everything just has to be higher - there's much more at risk. In a complex system, there are a lot of single points of failure that can cause haywire. Unsurprisingly, the tolerances for 'unmanned' vs…

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_binning for something similar related to computers.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#65

Post by celdon25 »

alexasmyths wrote: post #20
jedc wrote: post #17

Former submariner here. My thoughts echo those of a ex-submariner group I'm a part of -- it makes sense across the board. It's 1) a cost saving measure, 2) WAY easier to get replacements, and 3) WAAAYY easier to train new people to use it safely and efficiently.

+10. This should be done in many more places. Though with 'cost plus' contracts... providers are incented to create crazy new things for every problem. If there weren't moral questions around this - it would be amazing to see a NATO forces 'hackathon' where people create top gear/tech for soldiers with off-the-shelf components and software. I have a funny feeling that 'if they put their hearts to it' - there'd be no…

Well, you have the issue of EMP hardening. Not sure if that is a problem in submarines. But elsewhere, you have a serious defensive flaw if an EMP attack can disable military hardware.

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#66

Post by seanp2k2 »

alexasmyths wrote: post #20
jedc wrote: post #17

Former submariner here. My thoughts echo those of a ex-submariner group I'm a part of -- it makes sense across the board. It's 1) a cost saving measure, 2) WAY easier to get replacements, and 3) WAAAYY easier to train new people to use it safely and efficiently.

+10. This should be done in many more places. Though with 'cost plus' contracts... providers are incented to create crazy new things for every problem. If there weren't moral questions around this - it would be amazing to see a NATO forces 'hackathon' where people create top gear/tech for soldiers with off-the-shelf components and software. I have a funny feeling that 'if they put their hearts to it' - there'd be no…

A lot of R

Re: U.S. Navy to use Xbox 360 controllers to operate periscopes aboard submarines

#70

Post by nikcub »

wakamoleguy wrote: post #6

This is one of those simple ideas that makes a lot of sense. I'm glad to hear there are teams working to reduce costs and improve UX for the military. Microsoft obviously did a lot of user testing with their controller, but they must have been optimizing for a certain consumer price point as well. It makes me wonder what sort of controller you would have if they spent all that focus on usability, but with the same $3…

Theres an entire market for high-end gaming controllers, from both Microsoft[0] and other manufacturers[1][2].

I had a chance to try out the Elite - they feel great, very solid build. The requirements for gamers might be a bit diff to what a submariner would require - but I could imagine the Navy would prefer the sturdiness of these high end controllers and that gamers prefer wired and low-latency.

[0] https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/accessories/controllers/...

[1] https://scufgaming.com/s/xboxone/

[2] https://www2.razerzone.com/au-en/gaming-controllers/razer-wi...

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