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Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

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Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#161

Post by vacri »

randyrand wrote: post #112

I've said this before, but technology progress is the reason women now work outside the home. Not societal progress. Tasks that took all day in the 1900s - 1930s are now completely outdated or take minutes instead of hours. A housewife today would be bored out of her mind relative to how much work a 1900s era housewife had to do. Making 3 meals from near-scratch for 6+ people every day, raising 6-10 children so they…

> I've said this before, but technology progress is the reason women now work outside the home. Not societal progress.

This is a false dichotomy.

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#162

Post by vacri »

yung_endian wrote: post #143
joenot443 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a friendly reminder as I noticed you're new - patronising, nonproductive comments like this don't go over as well here as they do on reddit.

I've been lurking here since it started. It's not patronizing - it's pointing out a basic statistical fact. Has the bar on HN truly fallen so low that pointing out that anecdote != data is now considered rude?

It's really weird that you've been on the site for 10 years and only just now decided to bust forth with a handful of comments of this low quality.

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#163

Post by BearGoesChirp »

watwut wrote: post #82
VirtualAirwaves wrote: post #68

Don't we need more men in primary and secondary school teaching? I would think so.

That is highly discussed issue in pedagogic cycles - how to get and keep more males. For years. The answer usually ends up "yes, but they would come only if there would be higher social status and salaries for teachers". And no one knows how to achieve that. It is possible that money is not the only thing to keep males away, I dont recall any studies. Just that is the usual assumption. The fact that male teachers ten…

Stopping as 'higher social status and salaries' can miss the driving factors of why men might want those. Society currently judges a ma's relationship worth on those scales far more than a woman's relationship worth. Men who earn less or have lower social status are seen as less dateable, and even married men will face negative social pressures if they earn less than their wife (to say nothing of social pressure the wife may face).

Another issue is false accusations. I know personal anecdotes aren't a replacement for peer-reviewed data, but I tutor kids and have had my own mother ask me to stop because she is scared my life will eventually be ruined by a false accusation.

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#164

Post by gozur88 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #160
nitwit005 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The work seems to expand to fill the time. You'll notice people struggle to raise their 2-3 kids, when people previously had over a dozen. They're now putting in more effort per-child. Having cleaning be easier similarly seems to raise cleaning standards.

Children also weren't expected to continuously be monitored by adults before. They left the house and hung out with siblings or neighborhood kids until it was time to eat.

That was his whole point when he said the work expands to fill the time. There's no particular reason new to the current era that children should be continuously monitored.

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#165

Post by gozur88 »

scarmig wrote: post #50
paulddraper wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data is nice, but please don't forget lots and lots of anecotes in your article!

There's a study that indicates an interesting trend: you can have articles that have hard data, have soft anecdotes, or have both. Of those, the ones that try to do both are significantly less convincing than the ones that solely focus on one approach. I know a guy who loves articles that do both though, so YMMV.

When I see an article that starts out with a "soft anecdote" I'm immediately put off because it seems like an attempt to manipulate my emotions. That's not really necessary if you have the data to support your point, so my first inclination is your data is weak and you're trying to slip something by me.

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#166

Post by hiram112 »

Clanan wrote: post #151
randyrand wrote: post #112

I've said this before, but technology progress is the reason women now work outside the home. Not societal progress. Tasks that took all day in the 1900s - 1930s are now completely outdated or take minutes instead of hours. A housewife today would be bored out of her mind relative to how much work a 1900s era housewife had to do. Making 3 meals from near-scratch for 6+ people every day, raising 6-10 children so they…

Your argument would be much stronger with data. I wouldn't be surprised if the truth is somewhere in the middle and I certainly wouldn't discount the impact of the Vietnam War, feminism, social services, heck even consumerism, etc. on the tendency of people to work or stay at home. And you're totally right that homemaker/stay-at-home-parent should be represented in the workforce... developing software is cake compare…

> And you're totally right that homemaker/stay-at-home-parent should be represented in the workforce... developing software is cake compared to that workload.

I don't have kids, so I don't know just how tough the job is, but I'm always reminded of this funny clip when someone does mention it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoJrMaFlxOk

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#167

Post by toomanybeersies »

scarmig wrote: post #50
paulddraper wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data is nice, but please don't forget lots and lots of anecotes in your article!

There's a study that indicates an interesting trend: you can have articles that have hard data, have soft anecdotes, or have both. Of those, the ones that try to do both are significantly less convincing than the ones that solely focus on one approach. I know a guy who loves articles that do both though, so YMMV.

You don't have me convinced with your comment...

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#168

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

randyrand wrote: post #112

I've said this before, but technology progress is the reason women now work outside the home. Not societal progress. Tasks that took all day in the 1900s - 1930s are now completely outdated or take minutes instead of hours. A housewife today would be bored out of her mind relative to how much work a 1900s era housewife had to do. Making 3 meals from near-scratch for 6+ people every day, raising 6-10 children so they…

Hans Rosling said the the washing machine was one of the most transformative inventions ever.

https://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_and_the_magic_washing...

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#169

Post by nodamage »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #105
mikeash wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's damaging to the culture of this site is describing strong gender bias and oppression as "women were given the opportunity to be homemakers instead of laborers." The phrase is not "professional" but do you think it's wrong? Would you say policies where, for example, women couldn't get credit cards without their husband's permission, or black people couldn't go to certain schools, cannot be described as the coun…

> The phrase is not "professional" but do you think it's wrong? Would you say policies where, for example, women couldn't get credit cards without their husband's permission, or black people couldn't go to certain schools, cannot be described as the country having its head in its ass? It's not wrong, but speaking that way also doesn't foster a nuanced conversation with emotion in check, hence is bad for the site's cu…

> The issue is that _many_ people see full gender parity as equality

No. This is a massive strawman that is often repeated to justify the following counter-argument: "well, why aren't you complaining about all the other industries that don't have gender parity?", but it is not actually representative of the opposing viewpoint.

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#170

Post by ars »

ArlenBales wrote: post #99

The only graph that surprised me is the one that says most bartenders are female now.

Surprised me at first as well, until I realized that a bartender is basically a waiter.

Some are also people to chat with.

Both are roles more often associated with females.

And they live off of tips, and since most drinkers are male, females do better there as well.

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