Would be very interesting to see which professions trended from very bias to near parity, and study those to see what truly influenced that change with the goal of applying those influences to other professions that remain biased or are trending away from equality.
Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950
101–110 of 232 posts
Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>> at around the 1960s/1970s. >> the U. S. began, even if just a little bit, to pull its head out of its ass with respect to equality and rights > Please watch your tone... There are plenty of people with more nuanced opinions on gender roles that aren't bigoted. But the opinions codified in policy prior to the 1960s/1970s were objectively horrifying . Brown v. Board was decided in 1954. Jim Crow was going strong in…
I agree that most of above is objectively horrifying, but the tone of your post was overly emotional and attracts the kinds who vote based on emotion instead of logic. "the U. S. began... to pull its head out of its ass," is not professional. > there isn't a non-bigoted defense of -- or inappropriate tone for criticizing -- the confluence of those policies. >it was the era of "women's lib", or in full "women's libera…
What's damaging to the culture of this site is describing strong gender bias and oppression as "women were given the opportunity to be homemakers instead of laborers."
The phrase is not "professional" but do you think it's wrong? Would you say policies where, for example, women couldn't get credit cards without their husband's permission, or black people couldn't go to certain schools, cannot be described as the country having its head in its ass?
I don't think full gender parity in all careers is likely to happen, nor necessarily a worthy goal. Full gender parity in opportunity, however, is extremely important, and this era you're romanticizing with an outrageously misleading description was far, far, far from equal opportunity.
Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
Programmers and computer operators did, but I can't find it in the page. "Computer" used to be a person crunching numbers using slide rules and mechanical calculators and it was an overwhelmingly female profession. When machines appeared, the operators were predominantly the same personnel that were doing it by hand earlier.
"Computer Programmers" is there but looks like it has always been dominated by men.
Does the data set go all the way to the 50s for that profession?
Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950
#104So according to that, software developers are around 20% female. That seems high to me, from my own experiences. Even still, with all the "let's get more women in tech" stuff I read, are there initiatives to get women in the other jobs even further to the left on that graph? (largely physical labor jobs)
> are there initiatives No, people tend to be only interested in professions that are "hip" enough. Nobody is going to glamorize plumbers (even though they certainly should!).
Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree that most of above is objectively horrifying, but the tone of your post was overly emotional and attracts the kinds who vote based on emotion instead of logic. "the U. S. began... to pull its head out of its ass," is not professional. > there isn't a non-bigoted defense of -- or inappropriate tone for criticizing -- the confluence of those policies. >it was the era of "women's lib", or in full "women's libera…
What's damaging to the culture of this site is describing strong gender bias and oppression as "women were given the opportunity to be homemakers instead of laborers." The phrase is not "professional" but do you think it's wrong? Would you say policies where, for example, women couldn't get credit cards without their husband's permission, or black people couldn't go to certain schools, cannot be described as the coun…
> The phrase is not "professional" but do you think it's wrong? Would you say policies where, for example, women couldn't get credit cards without their husband's permission, or black people couldn't go to certain schools, cannot be described as the country having its head in its ass?
It's not wrong, but speaking that way also doesn't foster a nuanced conversation with emotion in check, hence is bad for the site's culture IMO. And yes, I do think those policies are wrong. There is a big difference between culture and policy though.
> Full gender parity in opportunity, however, is extremely important, and this era you're romanticizing with an outrageously misleading description was far, far, far from equal opportunity.
I agree 100%. The issue is that _many_ people see full gender parity as equality, and in fact may be the majority viewpoint depending on how this site is skewed. If this site fosters an environment where people with slightly abnormal yet nonextremist viewpoints are downvoted to oblivion, it has the potential to form a huge echo chamber where issues like gender parity, cultural values, and any other slightly political issue cannot be discussed. It's not a good environment, even if it matches the majority viewpoint at the time.
edit: Also, speaking this way pushes people to vote based on emotion instead of whether or not the comment contributed to the conversation.
Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
> are there initiatives No, people tend to be only interested in professions that are "hip" enough. Nobody is going to glamorize plumbers (even though they certainly should!).
https://www.watersafe.org.uk/news/latest_news/get_girls_plum...
I stand repaired!
Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Data is nice, but please don't forget lots and lots of anecotes in your article!
There's a study that indicates an interesting trend: you can have articles that have hard data, have soft anecdotes, or have both. Of those, the ones that try to do both are significantly less convincing than the ones that solely focus on one approach. I know a guy who loves articles that do both though, so YMMV.
Have a citation for that with data?
Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950
#108Don't we need more men in primary and secondary school teaching? I would think so.
That is highly discussed issue in pedagogic cycles - how to get and keep more males. For years. The answer usually ends up "yes, but they would come only if there would be higher social status and salaries for teachers". And no one knows how to achieve that. It is possible that money is not the only thing to keep males away, I dont recall any studies. Just that is the usual assumption. The fact that male teachers ten…
I've heard from male teachers that teaching younger children isn't worth the risk (perceived or real) of baseless accusations ruining them. They much preferred to teach high school or above.
Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the Veterinarian one shows that some of these numbers are seriously lagging. It'd be interesting to see age plots with these. While the industry reached parity in 2010, college admission reached parity in about 1987: https://www.avma.org/News/JAVMANews/PublishingImages/100215g...
That's true of the overall workforce and I don't see it as evidence of lag. I think the effect is caused by a disproportionate number of women who go to college but either don't ever enter the workforce or stop work after a few years. The cause for this is obviously pregnancy/raising children. So even if it was 50% in 1987, maybe 10% of women who studied to become veterinarians chose not to pursue a permanent career…
I think it's just that it's not oncommon for vets to work well into their 60s and even 70s. I found this site:
https://datausa.io/profile/soc/291131/
That has a chart for age by gender. The crossover point is about 55, which would be for the "generation" that graduated 30 years ago, or around 1987.
I'm pretty doubtful of veterinary graduates not entering the workforce or stopping after a few years. I'm certainly not personally aware of any, but I don't have the numbers. Their debt is absolutely crushing. It's currently pushing 180k, and since it's post graduate, the interest rate is in the 5-7% range.
Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's obviously not his own quote; it's quite famous, and it is not an ironic coinage by the women's liberation movement.
I'm not sure why you think it was obvious, but it definitely wasn't. Not everyone has heard of everything that's "quite famous". I had to look it up, too.
I was born in the US, I'm over 30.
I didn't recognize it.