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Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

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Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#91

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

throwawayjava wrote: post #79
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In summary, the U. S. began, even if just a little bit, to pull its head out of its ass with respect to equality and rights. Please watch your tone. Just that your opinion is different from others and happens to currently match the majority view doesn't mean you should be rude to those with different opinions. There are plenty of people with more nuanced opinions on gender roles that aren't bigoted. edit: To those…

>>> at around the 1960s/1970s. >> the U. S. began, even if just a little bit, to pull its head out of its ass with respect to equality and rights > Please watch your tone... There are plenty of people with more nuanced opinions on gender roles that aren't bigoted. But the opinions codified in policy prior to the 1960s/1970s were objectively horrifying . Brown v. Board was decided in 1954. Jim Crow was going strong in…

I agree that most of above is objectively horrifying, but the tone of your post was overly emotional and attracts the kinds who vote based on emotion instead of logic. "the U. S. began... to pull its head out of its ass," is not professional.

> there isn't a non-bigoted defense of -- or inappropriate tone for criticizing -- the confluence of those policies.

>it was the era of "women's lib", or in full "women's liberation". IOW, "a woman's place is in the home, preferably barefoot and pregnant" began to go out the window.

Some people don't think it's a bad thing that women were given the opportunity to be homemakers instead of laborers. I agree that policies at the time were too extreme, but many others and I also believe that perfect gender parity in all careers is also extreme. What is considered "equal" varies depending on the person.

> Also, "watch your tone" is condescending and defensive.

Interpret it how you like. I was critiquing a behavior that I felt hurt the conversation and if left unchecked, has the potential to damage the culture of this site.

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#92

Post by mikestew »

vowelless wrote: post #84
tptacek wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not making a value judgement, just observing that it's extremely well-known in western culture, and obviously not something the commenter came up with themselves.

My mistake in that case. I moved to America about 10 years ago. I still get caught off guard by some of the cultural (especially historical) elements of western culture. I should probably get more educated about this stuff.

I should probably get more educated about this stuff.

Meh, it's my fault for not considering an international audience when using my colloquialisms without explanation. It's one of those phrases that I heard so much growing up, it didn't even occur to me that it was indeed colloquial to at least western culture, if not specific to the U. S.

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#93

Post by watchyourtone »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #55
mikestew wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a variety of possible contributing factors, primarily that it was the era of "women's lib", or in full "women's liberation". IOW, "a woman's place is in the home, preferably barefoot and pregnant" began to go out the window. Along with that was the civil rights era, meaning at the least the idea of equality for all. In summary, the U. S. began, even if just a little bit, to pull its head out of its ass with…

> In summary, the U. S. began, even if just a little bit, to pull its head out of its ass with respect to equality and rights. Please watch your tone. Just that your opinion is different from others and happens to currently match the majority view doesn't mean you should be rude to those with different opinions. There are plenty of people with more nuanced opinions on gender roles that aren't bigoted. edit: To those…

Hey, how about you please watch YOUR tone.

And nobody buys your self-serving, silly little assertion that "nuanced opinions on gender roles" aren't just bigotry.

You are being downvoted for being childishly defensive about your "nuanced opinions".

They are not.

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#94

Post by dominotw »

ErikVandeWater wrote: post #71
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In summary, the U. S. began, even if just a little bit, to pull its head out of its ass with respect to equality and rights. Please watch your tone. Just that your opinion is different from others and happens to currently match the majority view doesn't mean you should be rude to those with different opinions. There are plenty of people with more nuanced opinions on gender roles that aren't bigoted. edit: To those…

I'm not sure why you've been downvoted. Phrases like "pulling its head out of its ass" are not going to contribute to sophisticated and level-headed discussion.

>Phrases like "pulling its head out of its ass" are not going to contribute to sophisticated and level-headed discussion.

use the downvote button then.

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#95

Post by microcolonel »

bbarn wrote: post #70

So according to that, software developers are around 20% female. That seems high to me, from my own experiences. Even still, with all the "let's get more women in tech" stuff I read, are there initiatives to get women in the other jobs even further to the left on that graph? (largely physical labor jobs)

> That seems high to me, from my own experiences.

There are specific factors, such as the age of a company, the experience distribution/requirements, standard working arrangements (hours, overtime expectation, on-call) which are correlated with deviations from the mean.

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#96

Post by humanrebar »

watwut wrote: post #82
VirtualAirwaves wrote: post #68

Don't we need more men in primary and secondary school teaching? I would think so.

That is highly discussed issue in pedagogic cycles - how to get and keep more males. For years. The answer usually ends up "yes, but they would come only if there would be higher social status and salaries for teachers". And no one knows how to achieve that. It is possible that money is not the only thing to keep males away, I dont recall any studies. Just that is the usual assumption. The fact that male teachers ten…

> And no one knows how to achieve [higher status and salaries for teachers].

They do. There are lots of ways to do that. Just none that are attractive to the pedagogic establishment.

> It is possible that money is not the only thing to keep males away

I know male teachers who have had to deal with sexism (the men as sexual predators stuff). A non trivial amount of people find men untrustworthy with children.

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#97

Post by astura »

bbarn wrote: post #70

So according to that, software developers are around 20% female. That seems high to me, from my own experiences. Even still, with all the "let's get more women in tech" stuff I read, are there initiatives to get women in the other jobs even further to the left on that graph? (largely physical labor jobs)

Is your experience in the SF startup scene? Corporate land is a lot different from the Valley as far as the makeup of the workforce.

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#98

Post by [deleted] »

ErikVandeWater wrote: post #71
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In summary, the U. S. began, even if just a little bit, to pull its head out of its ass with respect to equality and rights. Please watch your tone. Just that your opinion is different from others and happens to currently match the majority view doesn't mean you should be rude to those with different opinions. There are plenty of people with more nuanced opinions on gender roles that aren't bigoted. edit: To those…

I'm not sure why you've been downvoted. Phrases like "pulling its head out of its ass" are not going to contribute to sophisticated and level-headed discussion.

[deleted]

Re: Most Female and Male Occupations Since 1950

#100

Post by slededit »

watwut wrote: post #82
VirtualAirwaves wrote: post #68

Don't we need more men in primary and secondary school teaching? I would think so.

That is highly discussed issue in pedagogic cycles - how to get and keep more males. For years. The answer usually ends up "yes, but they would come only if there would be higher social status and salaries for teachers". And no one knows how to achieve that. It is possible that money is not the only thing to keep males away, I dont recall any studies. Just that is the usual assumption. The fact that male teachers ten…

Ontario has very high teacher salaries and still not many male teachers.
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