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Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

nytimes.com

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Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#61

Post by maxxxxx »

microcolonel wrote: post #27
maxxxxx wrote: post #20

That's why corporations will never help against dictatorship. They may do it if it's convenient but in the end they will prioritize money over everything else and fall in line with dictatorships. Happened during the Nazi time, it's happening in China now.

> That's why corporations will never help against dictatorship. They may do it if it's convenient but in the end they will prioritize money over everything else and fall in line with dictatorships. Happened during the Nazi time, it's happening in China now. Well, if you want your government to be powerful enough to enforce laws against corporations, then corporations will not be powerful enough to defy your governmen…

I don't necessarily blame corporations for this. My point is that we shouldn't look at corporations as agents for freedom. A lot of people seem to be doing this. In the end they will fall in line with whoever is running the country. As long as there is money to be made.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#62

Post by vetinari »

fiblye wrote: post #36
libeclipse wrote: post #24

What a despicable joke of a country. And shame on Apple for aiding them while they made such a massive deal of user rights in the US.

In America, they're still free to openly complain about American policies. Try that in China and you'll be gone before the week is over and a state-sponsored company will take your place

> In America, they're still free to openly complain about American policies.

You can complain only about those, that are inconsequential, or won't change anyway. Otherwise you could be labeled with miscellaneous labels and maybe also beaten at someplaces.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#63

Post by adamnemecek »

microcolonel wrote: post #60
adamnemecek wrote: post #37

Hey Timmy, what was all that talk about customer security? https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/ And here I was, almost believing you. You're a coward.

> You're a coward. No, he's a Chief Executive. If the Chief Executive can make more money by saying Apple is going to bat for gay people (in America, so bold! so brave! /s) or for your privacy, then the Chief is going to say it. You're at fault for taking them on their word. What you needed was a contract, not an open letter.

I know how these things work note the almost.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#64

Post by fredley »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #54
Crontab wrote: post #39

This is awful, but in England and America, I foresee similar policies will come - in the name of law, safety, and security.

Neither America nor the U.K. have national firewalls in place.

Yet. Theresa May would build one right away if she could (and the first steps are being taken)

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#65

Post by pipio21 »

Just common sense, given that the China gobertment has made usage of VPNs illegal.

What do you expect?

People in China could continue using app store accounts created in other countries as usual.

And most educated people continue using VPNs too. Normal people are becoming experts in encription, security...

It worries me more that countries like the UK and the US want to follow China, in that order.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#66

Post by seanmcdirmid »

janandonly wrote: post #3
janandonly wrote: post #2

What happens in China now could happen in 5 years in the rest of the world. For "security" reasons or "fight agains terrorism", while it's really a fight between those in power and those who want power :-( The need for IPFS, webRTC and other non-centralized protocols becomes more pressing every day, to defend everyone who is stuck in between.

It should be noted that using a non-china based iTunes account still allows you to install vpn apps and run the app inside Chinese borders... But The Great Firewall could and sometimes does already block all VPN traffic so it would not be any use.

If the VPN actually works the app might still be useful. It is a game of cat and mouse between the government and the VPN providers.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#68

Post by vetinari »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #57
threeseed wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The USA is hardly a shining example of a country the rest of the world should be following right now. It is doing plenty of oppressive things that many of us in the rest of world don't agree with e.g. Paris accord, incarceration rates, threats against the press. I don't agree with what China is doing but the "right thing to do" is never so simple.

The use of what aboutism and moral highground logical fallacies look extremely crass, especially on HN.

Yes, we prefer do as I say, not as I do here. /s

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#69

Post by izacus »

saurik wrote: post #25

They also require a paid developer subscription to get access to the Network Extensions capability (needed to build a VPN protocol extension) in order to make sure people who develop these apps can't just provide IPA files for normal users in China to "sideload" using tools such as my Cydia Impactor.

So they go out of their way to prevent users to avoid censorship by themselves on their devices?

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#70

Post by microcolonel »

sametmax wrote: post #56
microcolonel wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many places where companies are incorporated, that is likely an illegal decision to make for your company. Unless you can argue that the loss of sales in that jurisdiction will be less than the loss in sales abroad (from loss of consumer trust), you probably can't do it. In addition, they likely have ongoing procurement contracts with some companies in China which they would need to continue honouring. In principl…

Legality and morality are different things. Your shareholders may have the right to ask you to fire loads of people, or be a patent troll, but the choice is still yours. But let's be fair, how many individuals, given the choice, would choose making a better world over money ? Probably not event most people in this thread. We are weak creatures.

> but the choice is still yours.

Not really, look up fiduciary duty. When you trade publicly, you have a special form of contract to the shareholding trusts, and in turn to the shareholder.

If you breach this, you are liable for damages, and likely to be replaced by somebody who isn't going to make the same mistake.

This is a vital part of publicly traded companies.

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