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In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

nytimes.com

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Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#321

Post by 0xffff2 »

nopzor wrote: post #159
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people pay their balance off every month in the USA. Credit card doesn't mean borrowing. The big problem with credit cards in China is fraud: banks like ICBC will put the burden of proof on the card holder when a fraud transaction occurs, rather than the merchant as in the west. I really hate ICBC. Anyways, debit cards work just like QR pay does, just like UnionPay already does. The problem QR codes are…

The average american has something like 10k in credit card debt.

"Average" presumably meaning "mean" here... How much debt does the median American have?

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#322

Post by cr0sh »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #153
intended wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter how American's treat credit cards. Traditionally China is known as a nation where people save, and debt was not seen favorably at all . This is a cultural thing, which has likely been wearing out since the 1990s.

This is completely unrelated to credit cards, but if you told me that 10 years ago, I would have agreed. Today is much different, I have plenty of friends who are $500k in debt on housing investments. Of course, China's rapid rise in personal as well as private and public sector debt is evidence of a changing society.

> Today is much different, I have plenty of friends who are $500k in debt on housing investments.

While that is a lot of debt, it is nowhere the same as saying you have $500k of debt on credit cards. Credit cards are unsecured debt; it's debt with little or nothing behind it.

Mortgage debt, though, is a secured debt. In theory, you could sell the houses, maybe for more than you paid for them, and possibly or likely more than you owe on them (that is, you gain the equity). Of course, you could also be upside down, but you still have the property, and you could just sit on it, rent it out, and continue to make payments on it from rent (or whatever) until the market comes back.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#323

Post by seanmcdirmid »

de_Selby wrote: post #291
Mikushi wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mobile payments haven't taken off in the west because credit cards have worked well enough Yeah but no. Come in the UK and you'll see that mobile payments are seeing widespread acceptance. I can go weeks without having to pull my Debit or Credit Card.

Absolutely. This thread seems to be populated with people who think everywhere in "the west" = the USA. I'm in Ireland and hate carrying change so I use my phone all the time to pay, I only end up going to the ATM ~ once every 2 weeks or so. Some people working in shops aren't used to paying with phones yet but you just tell them it's the same as contactless card and it works out fine.

Everywhere to me is just china and the USA. I haven't been to the UK in years, but was happy about NFC usage when I tripped to austrailia.

Ever since I've been back to the states from china, I've used the ATM only around four times in the last year. My wallet also feels much more empty given the density of $20 bills over 100 RMB notes.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#324

Post by 0xffff2 »

urethrafranklin wrote: post #245
dis-sys wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tapping the card to the NFC terminal is super easy. You don't even need to take your card out of the wallet if its in front. The whole point here is how to entirely get rid of the wallet. your ID, your cards, receipts, parking tickets etc should all be digital. in fact, that is exactly what WeChat/Alipay are offering or battling for. WeChat based ID card with approval from the Public Security Bureau: https://www.hu…

Actually this is a terrifying prospect. I can just imagine being arrested because the ID network is down. You people need to watch Black Mirror.

I find the idea that I could be arrested for not having a physical ID at least as terrifying.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#325

Post by arkitaip »

Zolomon wrote: post #198

Sweden has been mostly cash-free for 8-12 years now.

True but we use debit/credit cards. They can be incredibly fast if the POS is connected via broadband (instead of land lines, which are increasingly rare). Personally, I would like to see Klarna roll out in-store "invoices" for small purchases so you can always shop as long as you have your mobile (even if you don't have money on your account).

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#326

Post by urethrafranklin »

kuschku wrote: post #320
urethrafranklin wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if that were true (I could write a book about how wrong this is), this isn't something retailers can compete on. If I get 2 extra cents, why would I give it back to the consumer, if my competitor could just do the same (and now both my competitor and I have lost those 2 cents)?

You should take a look at ALDI and LIDL’s retail strategy. They’ve been in an eternal race for lower prices since they started competing.

Yes, I read that article too. I already told you why it doesn't apply.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#327

Post by urethrafranklin »

0xffff2 wrote: post #324
urethrafranklin wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually this is a terrifying prospect. I can just imagine being arrested because the ID network is down. You people need to watch Black Mirror.

I find the idea that I could be arrested for not having a physical ID at least as terrifying.

You must be a very scared person then.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#328

Post by kuschku »

urethrafranklin wrote: post #326
kuschku wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should take a look at ALDI and LIDL’s retail strategy. They’ve been in an eternal race for lower prices since they started competing.

Yes, I read that article too. I already told you why it doesn't apply.

Which article?

Also, it literally applies here – since the fees for credit cards were reduced, ALDI and LIDL introduced payment with credit card (which wasn’t possible before at all at them). Same with REWE and coop.

How can you say it doesn’t apply if it literally happened.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#329

Post by tormeh »

oh_sigh wrote: post #303
tormeh wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>that it is still in existence with the same constitution is no small feat I would call that a defeat. The US constitution is clearly past its sell-by date.

Wow, one result you don't like leads you to throw the whole thing out? If you cook a meal you don't like, do you burn down your kitchen?

Are you referring to Trump? I wasn't thinking of him at all, I was thinking about the polarization of society and the two-party system. Trump will pass fairly quickly. He might even shape up himself, although the presidency shouldn't be adult education. The two-party system, congress and the whole shitshow, on the other hand, will stay for a long long time.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#330

Post by 0xffff2 »

urethrafranklin wrote: post #327
0xffff2 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the idea that I could be arrested for not having a physical ID at least as terrifying.

You must be a very scared person then.

Not really. I'm quite certain that arresting me for not carrying ID would be illegal in the United States. Note that in some states I might be required to identify myself, but simply stating my full name counts; I don't have to have a physical government-issued ID. Similarly, I am required to carry a driver's license when driving, but forgetting my license at home will at most result in a ticket.

There's just no plausible scenario where I get arrested and taken to jail simply for not having a physical ID with me.

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