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In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

nytimes.com

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Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#141

Post by djdjfjd »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #131
nickrio wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Chinese & living China, I shopping almost only with credit cards and cash for privacy consideration. However, I don't think credit cards in China are as popular as it is in the USA. I could guess most Chinese people don't have any credit card. Chinese traditional culture encourages saving, not loaning. And taking small loans is exactly how credit cards works. So maybe that's why people here don't like credit ca…

I think most people pay their balance off every month in the USA. Credit card doesn't mean borrowing. The big problem with credit cards in China is fraud: banks like ICBC will put the burden of proof on the card holder when a fraud transaction occurs, rather than the merchant as in the west. I really hate ICBC. Anyways, debit cards work just like QR pay does, just like UnionPay already does. The problem QR codes are…

I am not sure if it's true. It would be good if there is some data on this. But when I was living in the US, more than a few of my friends were in debt either via credit card or student loans. It's quite common compared to Chinese students which usually pay in full.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#142

Post by ajdlinux »

kondro wrote: post #111
keiwo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd assume the fee for receiving funds through WeChat QR is significantly lower than the transaction fee for paypass in Australia, which might explain why so many stores have a minimum for card.

Fees for PayPass/PayWave on debit cards in Australia is 7.5¢.

Though, in general, if you accept debit cards in Australia you need to accept that network's credit cards too. My Visa Platinum is going to be more than 7.5c for most transactions, I imagine.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#143

Post by blazespin »

thablackbull wrote: post #21

I think this is a good illustration of the different approach in how China and America approach the consumer economics space. In America, there is a very heavy reliance on "trickle down". We create a "best-in-class", "top-of-the-line" product that only the elite and wealthy can buy into. These people then set the tone of how it will develop in the future. The first mover also tries to do everything in their power to…

I think that has more to do with our manufacturing costs. The first run can't be cheap, we just don't have the infra for that sort of thing.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#144

Post by seanmcdirmid »

djdjfjd wrote: post #141
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people pay their balance off every month in the USA. Credit card doesn't mean borrowing. The big problem with credit cards in China is fraud: banks like ICBC will put the burden of proof on the card holder when a fraud transaction occurs, rather than the merchant as in the west. I really hate ICBC. Anyways, debit cards work just like QR pay does, just like UnionPay already does. The problem QR codes are…

I am not sure if it's true. It would be good if there is some data on this. But when I was living in the US, more than a few of my friends were in debt either via credit card or student loans. It's quite common compared to Chinese students which usually pay in full.

Hmm, I guess you are right:

http://time.com/money/4213757/average-american-credit-card-d...

Strange, I never carry a balance, and I still get all the points common in the credit card system.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#145

Post by seanmcdirmid »

sangnoir wrote: post #140
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people pay their balance off every month in the USA. Credit card doesn't mean borrowing. The big problem with credit cards in China is fraud: banks like ICBC will put the burden of proof on the card holder when a fraud transaction occurs, rather than the merchant as in the west. I really hate ICBC. Anyways, debit cards work just like QR pay does, just like UnionPay already does. The problem QR codes are…

> Many countries have an even better technology in NFC contact NFC isn't "better technology", just different to QR code. NFC also handles 1 payer at a time whereas QR can handle multiple, in parallel depending on the physical display size.

NFC is better than QR codes in many many many ways. You don't have to line up the codes with the phones, paying is much faster, and the "1 payer at a time" limitation is actually the 99.9% use case for payments.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#146

Post by yannski »

EZ-E wrote: post #46
yoz-y wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take out card, put on NFC reader, get out. One problem is the 20€ limit though.

Last time I was in France, there is not that many NFC terminals yet. Also both of my french cards don't support it Also 20€ limit is fairly deal breaker, doing groceries will often be above that. Even a 2 person MacDonalds is probably something like 22€ Meanwhile even vending machines can scan your QR code in China

NFC payments quickly spread all over France in the past 12 months. It's nearly everywhere now, with no minimal payment amount.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#147

Post by mrkrabo »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #131
nickrio wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Chinese & living China, I shopping almost only with credit cards and cash for privacy consideration. However, I don't think credit cards in China are as popular as it is in the USA. I could guess most Chinese people don't have any credit card. Chinese traditional culture encourages saving, not loaning. And taking small loans is exactly how credit cards works. So maybe that's why people here don't like credit ca…

I think most people pay their balance off every month in the USA. Credit card doesn't mean borrowing. The big problem with credit cards in China is fraud: banks like ICBC will put the burden of proof on the card holder when a fraud transaction occurs, rather than the merchant as in the west. I really hate ICBC. Anyways, debit cards work just like QR pay does, just like UnionPay already does. The problem QR codes are…

Why credit cards and not debit cards?

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#148

Post by larrysalibra »

isostatic wrote: post #103
angled wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I see the cashless innovation failing deliver is where there is a state-owned enterprise providing a service. I was in Shenzhen on the weekend and had to use cash to pay for a one-time use token to catch the subway. Lining up to pay took a good 20 minutes by itself. The Shenzhen subway seems like an exact copy of Hong Kong's MTR, which uses the excellent and ubiquitous Octopus system. The MTR is its own entity…

I've used the metro in NYC and Washington DC this week, and will do in LA tomorrow. Strangely I couldn't just wave my phone or credit card at the barrier like I do in (state-run) London - had to actually buy something to get on board. It's almost as archaic as the (private run) busses in the UK.

NYC Subway & DC metro are state run...

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#149

Post by mahyarm »

svckr wrote: post #129
csydas wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the data doesn't back this, but as a US citizen I find that most of the time when people refer to credit cards they're meaning their Bank card, which often acts as whatever you define it as at the terminal or it has a default status for quick pay options. There are many people that are happy to just pull out the credit card to buy beyond their means but a lot of the time people are using a card backed directly…

Here in Germany we have a clear distinction between credit- and debit cards. And I guess the culture leans more toward the "saving not loaning" model nickrio describes. So for me it is a conscious decision wether I pay with my bank account or credit. Unlike China however, adoption of digital, low-barrier payments is extremely low here. I mean, hell, we're mostly buying paper bus tickets, while local public transport…

As far as payment terminals go, there is no effective difference between credit or debit cards, and in the USA they accept both :)

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#150

Post by intended »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #131
nickrio wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Chinese & living China, I shopping almost only with credit cards and cash for privacy consideration. However, I don't think credit cards in China are as popular as it is in the USA. I could guess most Chinese people don't have any credit card. Chinese traditional culture encourages saving, not loaning. And taking small loans is exactly how credit cards works. So maybe that's why people here don't like credit ca…

I think most people pay their balance off every month in the USA. Credit card doesn't mean borrowing. The big problem with credit cards in China is fraud: banks like ICBC will put the burden of proof on the card holder when a fraud transaction occurs, rather than the merchant as in the west. I really hate ICBC. Anyways, debit cards work just like QR pay does, just like UnionPay already does. The problem QR codes are…

It doesn't matter how American's treat credit cards.

Traditionally China is known as a nation where people save, and debt was not seen favorably at all.

This is a cultural thing, which has likely been wearing out since the 1990s.

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