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In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

nytimes.com

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Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#241

Post by psy-q »

erikb wrote: post #100
psy-q wrote: post #97

It's interesting that they worry about lock-in from Tencent and Alibaba in China while not mentioning the same lock-in and issues for Google, Microsoft and Apple in the rest of the world. People who don't want to get a Google account already get a degraded product when using Android phones, and I'm not even sure an iPhone works without an Apple ID. That Google Wallet flopped is just a happy coincidence in this regard…

Apple Pay hasn't flopped where? Actually it's the first time I here about its existence. So if it's not just 2 weeks old I strongly assume that it in fact has flopped. I have an iphone 6s currently btw.

I see it advertised a lot and the biggest kiosk chain in Switzerland accepts it. But I don't know anyone who uses it apart from some overheard conversations on the tram. Totally anecdotal, though. I don't think Apple releases numbers.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#242

Post by DarkKomunalec »

dis-sys wrote: post #190

Criminals are now targeting those QR codes. They just walk around and put their own QR code stickers on top of the legitimate ones, hoping that future payment will end up in their accounts. What really impress me is that Alipay immediately responded to such reports and agreed to foot the damages. They also started to promote the voice notification feature so street vendors don't have to stop periodically to just chec…

"It is definitely a good example on why capitalism is the best choice in 2017."

Until the company becomes too big, and can do whatever they want without losing customers. See various horror stories about Bank of America, Comcast, PayPal, management engines in Intel and AMD chips, 'telemetry' in Windows, etc., for counterexamples.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#243

Post by yoz-y »

EZ-E wrote: post #46
yoz-y wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take out card, put on NFC reader, get out. One problem is the 20€ limit though.

Last time I was in France, there is not that many NFC terminals yet. Also both of my french cards don't support it Also 20€ limit is fairly deal breaker, doing groceries will often be above that. Even a 2 person MacDonalds is probably something like 22€ Meanwhile even vending machines can scan your QR code in China

Adoption has not been the fastest that is true. There are shops that start also supporting QR codes through Lydia, however the process is nowhere near convenient as NFC as you have to unlock your phone, launch the Lydia app, unlock it, then type the amount and that is when you finally get to the QR code. I suppose Android phones in China have the payment somehow integrated into the lock screen ?

Edit: just wanted to add that many vending machines also do support NFC payments.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#244

Post by uiri »

coliveira wrote: post #188
hueving wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I voted on something like 24 initiatives in the last election defining how the state of California deals with things like Marijuana and the death penalty. Seemed to work just fine to me. Presuming your lame post was actually referring to the presidential election, that was never direct democracy to begin with.

So you're trying to advance the argument that democracy is all nice and good to determine minor local issues, but it is not good enough to determine the next president? Seriously?

I read the statement as the US system - both at the state and the federal levels - is working the way it was designed to work. Given its growth - in both population and territory - since its founding, that it is still in existence with the same constitution is no small feat.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#245

Post by urethrafranklin »

dis-sys wrote: post #156
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For merchants taking WeChat pay, the transaction fee seems to be a flat 0.6%, compared to 2%-3% in the U.S. Where the heck is 3% even allowed in the USA? > However, it's quite difficult to argue that taking out the phone, unlock it, open the app and show the QR code is easier than using a card in the western world. Tapping the card to the NFC terminal is super easy. You don't even need to take your card out of the…

> Tapping the card to the NFC terminal is super easy. You don't even need to take your card out of the wallet if its in front. The whole point here is how to entirely get rid of the wallet. your ID, your cards, receipts, parking tickets etc should all be digital. in fact, that is exactly what WeChat/Alipay are offering or battling for. WeChat based ID card with approval from the Public Security Bureau: https://www.hu…

Actually this is a terrifying prospect. I can just imagine being arrested because the ID network is down. You people need to watch Black Mirror.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#246

Post by lostboys67 »

thehardsphere wrote: post #237
lostboys67 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes but if you hold cash they don't come and take 1% out of your wallet

They don't need to, because they can take the 1% out of your wallet by printing more pieces of paper with dead politicians faces on it.

Not the same one of the Baltic countries has openly speculated about taking money directly from peoples bank accounts.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#247

Post by Sukram21 »

usernam wrote: post #234
HeavenFox wrote: post #24

Born in China and moved to U.S. since college. In my observation, there are several reason for the boom in mobile payment in China that makes it hard to replicate. - Low transaction fee & minimal barrier. For merchants taking WeChat pay, the transaction fee seems to be a flat 0.6%, compared to 2%-3% in the U.S. For the food cart vendors and similar one man shops, they just use the person-to-person payment feature (li…

In EU you have a pin and you also have to sign the receipt. In supermarkets, cards (debit or credit) queue up the checkout line. Cash is way faster, hands down. I bothered to compare the difference once, since cards here are not the norm. We're talking between 5-10 seconds (cash register) vs 30-45 seconds, most of which are dead times (waiting for confirmation).

In the EU (at least here in Germany), if you have entered your PIN, you don't need to sign the receipt. If the PIN is not required during payment, then you need to sign.

Edit (replying to child): This applies when paying with credit card and EC/girocard. I don't know what you mean by ATM circuit.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#248

Post by urethrafranklin »

larrysalibra wrote: post #148
isostatic wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used the metro in NYC and Washington DC this week, and will do in LA tomorrow. Strangely I couldn't just wave my phone or credit card at the barrier like I do in (state-run) London - had to actually buy something to get on board. It's almost as archaic as the (private run) busses in the UK.

NYC Subway & DC metro are state run...

Actually neither London Underground nor MTA are technically state run.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#249

Post by lallysingh »

MichaelBurge wrote: post #213
nicky0 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article you linked to states that 59% of Americans always or usually pay off the full amount each month.

To me, "most" implies "at least 95%". That's because it's used to exclude a possibility: If most programming languages have if statements, then if I hear about your new language I can assume it has if statements without checking further. To use a simple majority means that you'd have to accept a simple statement like "Most programmers use Javascript"[1], and that's too weak to use for any reasoning. [1] https://web.a…

> To me, "most" implies "at least 95%".

https://www.xkcd.com/1860/

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#250

Post by urethrafranklin »

kuschku wrote: post #215
lostboys67 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this supposedly "consumer friendly" change lost me about £20 a month in cashback but the retailers will just pocket the difference and not pass it on to the end consumer

I very much doubt that, considering how fierce the competition between retailers is, often fighting over single cents.

Even if that were true (I could write a book about how wrong this is), this isn't something retailers can compete on. If I get 2 extra cents, why would I give it back to the consumer, if my competitor could just do the same (and now both my competitor and I have lost those 2 cents)?
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