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In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

nytimes.com

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Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#191

Post by realusername »

blahedo wrote: post #180
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

I think this article hit the nail on the head when it pointed out that being ahead of the curve at one time (with Japan and their advanced flip phones in the early 2000s) can make it harder to adopt the next big advance because what you have is already "good enough". Thus, in the US, I suspect that mobile payments haven't taken off as much because they are only very slightly faster to use than a credit card, as oppos…

> as opposed to cash, which is much slower with people counting out amounts and cashiers counting out change I can't really let that comment stand. Cash transactions go way faster than credit card transactions in my experience. (They'd go faster still if prices were posted with tax included, but that's a different issue.) Hand over the card, swipe the card, hand back the card, wait for the receipt to print, get a pen…

This is an American perspective, on my case cards are much faster than cash, I just tap the card, and it's done instantly.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#192

Post by netcan »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

I think this article hit the nail on the head when it pointed out that being ahead of the curve at one time (with Japan and their advanced flip phones in the early 2000s) can make it harder to adopt the next big advance because what you have is already "good enough". Thus, in the US, I suspect that mobile payments haven't taken off as much because they are only very slightly faster to use than a credit card, as oppos…

I think you're right that this is the dynamic at play here. It is similar to the dynamic by which many regions have leapfrogged landline telephones, skipping the older more infrastructure/capital intensive version of technology.

The developed economies were already mostly "cashless." Very little cash has run though most malls, hospitals, schools or even supermarkets for decades already. "We hqave something good enough" is definitely at play.

That said, we need to keep in mind that financial transactions has been close to an airtight oligopoly for a long while. 2 CC companies have run the show for decades. They have very deep "moats" with spikes and crocodiles. One of the big one is the strict regulation, which heavily favours established incumbents.

It's yet to be seen whether China (+India, etc.) will develop a dynamic market for financial services in their cashless economies, once the dominant services become established and entrenched.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#193

Post by weego »

dis-sys wrote: post #156
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For merchants taking WeChat pay, the transaction fee seems to be a flat 0.6%, compared to 2%-3% in the U.S. Where the heck is 3% even allowed in the USA? > However, it's quite difficult to argue that taking out the phone, unlock it, open the app and show the QR code is easier than using a card in the western world. Tapping the card to the NFC terminal is super easy. You don't even need to take your card out of the…

> Tapping the card to the NFC terminal is super easy. You don't even need to take your card out of the wallet if its in front. The whole point here is how to entirely get rid of the wallet. your ID, your cards, receipts, parking tickets etc should all be digital. in fact, that is exactly what WeChat/Alipay are offering or battling for. WeChat based ID card with approval from the Public Security Bureau: https://www.hu…

I'm more likely to always have a wallet on me than a phone on me. The base notion that a phone is literally essential to daily life but a wallet is not has yet is not a proven assumption.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#194

Post by nicky0 »

coliveira wrote: post #154
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people pay their balance off every month in the USA. Credit card doesn't mean borrowing. The big problem with credit cards in China is fraud: banks like ICBC will put the burden of proof on the card holder when a fraud transaction occurs, rather than the merchant as in the west. I really hate ICBC. Anyways, debit cards work just like QR pay does, just like UnionPay already does. The problem QR codes are…

> I think most people pay their balance off every month in the USA You would be surprised to learn that this is far from the truth. www.gallup.com/poll/22879/Credit-Card-Owners-Average-Balance-More-Than-3000.aspx

The article you linked to states that 59% of Americans always or usually pay off the full amount each month.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#195

Post by dullgiulio »

mahyarm wrote: post #149
svckr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Germany we have a clear distinction between credit- and debit cards. And I guess the culture leans more toward the "saving not loaning" model nickrio describes. So for me it is a conscious decision wether I pay with my bank account or credit. Unlike China however, adoption of digital, low-barrier payments is extremely low here. I mean, hell, we're mostly buying paper bus tickets, while local public transport…

As far as payment terminals go, there is no effective difference between credit or debit cards, and in the USA they accept both :)

There are some differences behind the scenes.

A week ago I was in this restaurant and I had almost no cash (as usual where I live in Northern EU); the restaurant terminals were rejecting debit cards from the two biggest banks in the country. After several attempts, I just paid with my credit card (which is configured to pay immediately from the account, not at end of month) and that worked.

That's probably because a credit card can go through with a transaction even if some of the involved parties fails to respond.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#196

Post by Symbiote »

raverbashing wrote: post #185
sangnoir wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many countries have an even better technology in NFC contact NFC isn't "better technology", just different to QR code. NFC also handles 1 payer at a time whereas QR can handle multiple, in parallel depending on the physical display size.

How do you verify payment with QR code?

In Scandinavia, usually just by showing the "payment sent" screen to the merchant. The merchant can check their own device for the notification if they want confirmation.

The annoying background video shows it: http://mobilepay.dk/da-dk/Pages/mobilepay.aspx

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#197

Post by Ironchefpython »

williamle8300 wrote: post #33

No thanks. Cash is king. Money should never be traceable, and you should be able to buy with anonymity.

> No thanks. Cash is king. Money should never be traceable, and you should be able to buy with anonymity.

If you believe that, you're going to be shocked when the vast majority of people switch to cashless systems, and cash will only be used for criminal activity, and then cash will become criminalized.

The solution isn't to preserve cash. That's doomed to failure.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#199

Post by __m »

thablackbull wrote: post #21

I think this is a good illustration of the different approach in how China and America approach the consumer economics space. In America, there is a very heavy reliance on "trickle down". We create a "best-in-class", "top-of-the-line" product that only the elite and wealthy can buy into. These people then set the tone of how it will develop in the future. The first mover also tries to do everything in their power to…

And surveilled by their wallet.
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