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In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

nytimes.com

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Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#181

Post by hueving »

rodgerd wrote: post #40
_ea1k wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is hard to overstate just how easy it is to use a credit card in the US. I have only managed to use Android Pay a couple of times and the store that I did that with has removed it since then. When it works, it is approximately the same level of annoyance as a credit card. When it fails, it is so much worse. I just don't see it taking off here in its current form.

> Yeah, it is hard to overstate just how easy it is to use a credit card in the US. You have got to be kidding. Handing my card over to someone who disappears off with it? Those bloody awful faux-pens to sign on an LCD? That's your idea of easy to use? Paying for things in the US feels like the stone ages.

>Handing my card over to someone who disappears off with it?

Does this bother you? If your system can't handle this scenario then it is flawed.

>Those bloody awful faux-pens to sign on an LCD?

Not required in lots of locations unless it exceeds some value.

>That's your idea of easy to use?

Yes, I put a card in a machine, wait 5-10 seconds, and take it out. Done.

In a sit-down restaurant, the waiter drops off the check towards the end of the meal. I put my card in the holder and he grabs it and returns with a receipt to sign and write a tip amount. Not quite as fast as the waiters who have payment processors they walk around with like in Europe, but close.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#183

Post by zanny »

usaphp wrote: post #61
hbarka wrote: post #51

Take the credit card swipe versus chip example. The chip is an improvement over the really old swipe tech in theory. In the US, using the chip is a terrible experience because it takes a lot longer for the process to complete. Why? Because merchant processors have no interest in putting the chips on a fast network because they can get higher fees on the swipe and conversely the stores are charged higher fees for enab…

The faster the lines are moving - the more transactions per day can a store process, thus more fees for processor. I don't see a logical reason for processors to artificially slow down payment process just for a tiny fee difference, no? plus they theoretically get less chargebacks and fraud activity with chips.

Except the cost of slow transactions is not eaten by the payment processor. The store just has to add more checkout lanes or clerks. The payment processor also never gets blamed - if the process is slow, the customer just blames the store.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#184

Post by icebraining »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #144
djdjfjd wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure if it's true. It would be good if there is some data on this. But when I was living in the US, more than a few of my friends were in debt either via credit card or student loans. It's quite common compared to Chinese students which usually pay in full.

Hmm, I guess you are right: http://time.com/money/4213757/average-american-credit-card-d... Strange, I never carry a balance, and I still get all the points common in the credit card system.

That's not strange, the CC processors still get a % from the merchant for each purchase.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#185

Post by raverbashing »

sangnoir wrote: post #140
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people pay their balance off every month in the USA. Credit card doesn't mean borrowing. The big problem with credit cards in China is fraud: banks like ICBC will put the burden of proof on the card holder when a fraud transaction occurs, rather than the merchant as in the west. I really hate ICBC. Anyways, debit cards work just like QR pay does, just like UnionPay already does. The problem QR codes are…

> Many countries have an even better technology in NFC contact NFC isn't "better technology", just different to QR code. NFC also handles 1 payer at a time whereas QR can handle multiple, in parallel depending on the physical display size.

How do you verify payment with QR code?

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#186

Post by zanny »

williamle8300 wrote: post #33

No thanks. Cash is king. Money should never be traceable, and you should be able to buy with anonymity.

Except most people don't care if they are being tracked and if they aren't anonymous, so systems like these emerge using the lack of anonymity as a feature.

I am one of the folk in the inevitability of cryptocurrency camp (not btc or any existant coin, though) but that world is one where it becomes very easy to correlate wallets, or at least where the funds come from, with the person making the purchases.

For everyone who wants anonymity they can keep using bitcoin and gold after fiat paper and coins are gone.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#187

Post by tanilama »

RealityNow wrote: post #73
thablackbull wrote: post #21

I think this is a good illustration of the different approach in how China and America approach the consumer economics space. In America, there is a very heavy reliance on "trickle down". We create a "best-in-class", "top-of-the-line" product that only the elite and wealthy can buy into. These people then set the tone of how it will develop in the future. The first mover also tries to do everything in their power to…

I live in NYC, and most stores seem to have $5-10 credit card minimums. America needs to admit that it's no longer the bastion of innovation that it once was (I say this as an American. If anyone doesn't believe me, just take a trip to East Asia). Americans are complacent and fine with not having the cutting edge (not to mention our failing infrastructure). I wish there was a way to change this attitude, but it feels…

As Chinese, I would say, the scale and speed of China getting rid of cash is truly impressive and makes me proud, but, in US, with credit card and Apple/Android Pay, I am pretty much cashless as well. For me, the achievement of mobile payment is social-economical, that is more about how companies could persuade customers to adapt a new way of doing something than inventing some ground-breaking technology.

In case of China, put it into another perspective. Chinese banks have long been state-owned and very ineffective. Credit cards are incredibly difficult to apply, and cumbersome to use after you get it because the banks refuse to pay you back in case of frauds. This is why WechatPay/Alipay could be so successful:

1.There is no existing dominating technologies.

2.It mitigate the fraud problem that it is harder to stole/clone your card.

3.The onboarding process is really easy.

All in all, I think mobile payment takes off in China is pretty logical, while in other countries, like Japan/South Korea, it is not common at all, even though they are close to China culturally and their economies are considered to be more advanced than China's. This is a classic example of second mover advantage, that China could enjoy this great leap forward, only because it is not advanced enough before so doesn't have all the legacy to carry along.

However, I agree with you that US needs to ditch the illusion, that it is still the norm of innovation and others should follow. The world is getting diverse once again after the cold war, more and more innovations will happen elsewhere, like in East Asia or India. Time to let go of that useless ignorance and set down to truly listen and, learn.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#188

Post by coliveira »

hueving wrote: post #171
coliveira wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we have democracy in politics The last events in the US election system have cast a long shadow of doubt on this statement.

Really? I voted on something like 24 initiatives in the last election defining how the state of California deals with things like Marijuana and the death penalty. Seemed to work just fine to me. Presuming your lame post was actually referring to the presidential election, that was never direct democracy to begin with.

So you're trying to advance the argument that democracy is all nice and good to determine minor local issues, but it is not good enough to determine the next president? Seriously?

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#189

Post by 9192837193 »

thablackbull wrote: post #21

I think this is a good illustration of the different approach in how China and America approach the consumer economics space. In America, there is a very heavy reliance on "trickle down". We create a "best-in-class", "top-of-the-line" product that only the elite and wealthy can buy into. These people then set the tone of how it will develop in the future. The first mover also tries to do everything in their power to…

Of course China would promote tracking all financial transactions (except for the kinds of people who buy houses in Vancouver).

I find the QR code payments a strange example of "democratic products".

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#190

Post by dis-sys »

Criminals are now targeting those QR codes. They just walk around and put their own QR code stickers on top of the legitimate ones, hoping that future payment will end up in their accounts.

What really impress me is that Alipay immediately responded to such reports and agreed to foot the damages. They also started to promote the voice notification feature so street vendors don't have to stop periodically to just check whether they are actually getting paid.

You will never ever see Chinese big four state owned banks take good care of their customers/users to such extent. It is definitely a good example on why capitalism is the best choice in 2017.

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