All those examples give you the same or more power over them.
When you're arrested, you have more power over the person who arrested you?
Not at all, until they express interest in you.
I'm a creep. I'm sorry
261–270 of 453 posts
Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry
#262To make this a bit more abstract:
Bob is a big wheel over at SomeCompany. Bob is outside work drinking with some friends, say Eve, and runs into Alice. Alice joins them and while she doesn't currently work for SomeCompany she indicates to Bob she would like to join. Bob, like most people, hangs out with a lot of people with similar interests/skill-sets/abilities. As the night wanes, Bob flirts with Alice. Alice declines Bob's advances. SomeCompany ends up not hiring Alice.
So where are we on the morality meter here? First, it is clearly inappropriate to flirt with people you may want to hire. Obviously. But the empathetic side of the argument is that just because you're a big wheel at the cracker factory that shouldn't mean you can never go 'off the clock' and do things humans tend to do like try to get laid. Work and life have become so blended for so many people it's unrealistic to expect this not to happen. We created this culture of 'living to work' and this is a consequence. We should expect these sorts of messy situations to occur and build sane rules/expectations around them. But go ahead and throw stones/downvote/ act outraged. That'll solve the problem.
Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
Totally agree. There's something very weird about this post. If I were truly faced with the sudden realization that I was a deeply shitty person, I can't imagine writing a post like this. I'd be off the grid entirely, probably drinking in a ditch some place. I know I can't speak for others and everyone is different, but the human element is missing here somehow. It does feel very PR.
His career depends very much on his reputation, and his reputation was just dragged through the mud over the past week. It's difficult to know whether this introspection and contrition is genuine, but his post is all about salvaging his name.
Even if it isn't genuine (and it appears genuine to me) then it's a step forward for a Silicon Valley head to recognise their actions are wrong.
Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Its only a problem if the other party is not into you, You're part of the problem.
In what way is OP 'part of the problem'? If the other party wishes to also pursue a romantic relationship - what's the problem?
I can't speak for OP, but let me ask you this. Suppose your sister is in the back of a police vehicle, on her way to jail. Would you rather the cop who is driving that vehicle be told
A) It's okay to flirt with suspects/criminals if they are into you
B) It's never okay to flirt with suspects/criminals and you will lose your job if you do
?
Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry
#265I've got to wonder, why do coworkers go out for drinks if it's not a social setting? I don't understand the logic of mixing alcohol with colleagues if you're still under the "workplace" umbrella.
The inappropriateness of McClure actions has no relationship to whether they occurred in a bar over a mixed drink or in an office over a bottled water. The "workplace umbrella", as you put it, follows him wherever he interacts with coworkers due to his position of power over them even if they are interacting in a social setting.
The "workplace umbrella", as you put it, follows him wherever he interacts with coworkers due to his position of power over them
Did I miss something here? My understanding from what McClure wrote is that he was interacting with someone who wasn't a co-worker.
Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry
#266Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
Give us a break, it's not a huge no-no. One of the most lasting TV series of all time was based entirely on co-worker romances (The Office). I know multiple girls and guys who met their SOs as coworkers. You may think it's lame (I do too fwiw), but it's still clearly acceptable almost everywhere, so I don't appreciate your gatekeeping.
I don't see how I'm "gatekeeping" by merely answering a question by giving my honest opinion and then pointing out a tactful way to go about doing something I personally would not do.
The version I responded to lead with "Asking out coworkers is a huge no-no," which is pretty clearly gatekeeping.
Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry
#268Reading these comments makes me really depressed for the future of our society. Let me get this straight - 1. Don't go out with co-workers. 2. Don't make friends with co-workers. 3. Def. never drink with co-workers. Have we really become this sensitive? There's a voice in me that's screaming 'fuck off' to this kind of attitude. I can't quite articulate why it infuriates me so much.
What are you talking about? You can do all of those things, just don't hit on them!
Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry
#269A lot of people here seem to not understand the power imbalance point, so I'd like to explain it. Imagine you're in these positions: --Being arrested, and an officer makes a romantic advance --On trial, and the judge makes a romantic advance --In therapy, and the therapist makes a romantic advance --At the doctor, and the doctor makes a romantic advance --At the bank, and the banker makes a romantic advance --In a re…
It's not necessarily about power imbalances - subordinates might express interest in a superior, or a colleague might interest in another colleague, and both situations can be just as problematic as a superior expressing interest in a subordinate. The problem is simply one person deciding to single out another person for any deviation of expected treatment especially when it has no relation to the social context or w…
I don't think dating coworkers is wrong. I think making somebody uncomfortable with clumsy/forceful/persistent advances can be bad though.
But let's say you like somebody at work, so you talk to them, and you both enjoy the conversation. Then you eat lunch together at work a few times. Then you invite them to get drinks after work as a group. Then you continue to hang out when the rest of the group has gone home. Then you ask if this person would be interested in getting drinks in the future. If anybody has a problem with that I don't see why.
So again key differences: - Power imbalance - Advances on the first time you meet somebody (no evidence of reciprocity) - Advances during the job - How aggressive the advance is (a compliment? touching? inviting to a date? lewd comment?)
Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good catch. I did read that but misplaced it when replying. I am glad he is seeking help but I hope its for purposes of identifying his desires/behaviors and not only mandated by circumstance.
> I did read that but misplaced it when replying. This is some of the most ridiculous phrasing I've ever come across.
It is to admit that I could have said "glad to see he is in therapy and hope he finds his true motivations" but I forgot he mentioned it because it is besides the point. The objective of my comment was to throttle down the "creep shaming" going on in this forum and several others.
Many people sometimes act creepily without even being aware of it. A little empathy as to how the other person feels and what their goals are can help one treat them with the respect they deserve. Hopefully the author can discover when his various desires are appropriate to express in context of the circumstances at hand.