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I'm a creep. I'm sorry

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Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#191

Post by mrmondo »

aortega wrote: post #170
hendzen wrote: post #142

Caveat, McClure's behavior was bad. But seeing recent public floggings for misbehavior I now wonder if people are feeling a bit hypersensitive/cautious about any workplace conduct that could potentially be perceived as harassment. Case in point. You work at a technology company. You are attracted to another coworker, who is NOT your subordinate. Is there some manner in which it is acceptable to express your interest?…

>Or is this just not OK at all? You are asking single 18-30 year old who spend most of their waking hours at work, to not make any advance to the only females they probably see in the week. Good luck with trying to fight nature.

Nature and humanity right? We're all humans, I find it fascinating but also infuriating how often people forget that most people just want to be happy and if they find love with those near them then I'm happy for them, far be it from profiteering companies etc... to tell people not to make connections with others.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#192

Post by macspoofing »

theWatcher37 wrote: post #141
daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

Counterpoint: bowing to the collective social shaming buys the individual no "points", as is evidenced by this tread full of vultures questioning his motives. Instead we've created a culture where the only logical move is to deny deny deny even in the face of overwhelming evidence because the only thing the modern left hates more than "creep" is a loser.

>Counterpoint: bowing to the collective social shaming buys the individual no "points", as is evidenced by this tread full of vultures questioning his motives.

The cynics in this thread (myself included) are not the target of this self-flagellation.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#193

Post by Aron »

mrmondo wrote: post #179
spamizbad wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think asking coworkers out is a huge no-no. If the only people in your orbit you feel you can connect with that way are at work, that's a sign your personal life needs some development. However, let's say you have a robust personal life, and you just have this absolutely amazing co-worker, who totally is not your subordinate, and ideally you don't even work directly with, and you want to ask them out... again.. I d…

'Asking out co-workers is a huge no-no' - to me this feels almost anti-humanist to the point where business is truly more important than our own lives, our being, our existence and our own free will. There is a massive difference between asking out co-workers and sexual harassment.

I agree. Answers like the above one indicate a level of dystopia/fear that itself is concerning. Friendship on any level is highly dependent on proximity in space and time. We need to be aware of how our righteous minds work and stop throwing stones all over the place.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#194

Post by alexandercrohde »

A lot of people here seem to not understand the power imbalance point, so I'd like to explain it.

Imagine you're in these positions: --Being arrested, and an officer makes a romantic advance --On trial, and the judge makes a romantic advance --In therapy, and the therapist makes a romantic advance --At the doctor, and the doctor makes a romantic advance --At the bank, and the banker makes a romantic advance --In a restaurant, and the waiter makes a romantic advance --At work, and the cleaning staff makes a romantic advance --In class, and the teacher makes a romantic advance --Buying a car, and the car dealer makes a romantic advance

Obviously each of these situations is a little different, and the appropriateness of flirting in each situation is a little bit different (for example a therapist will lose the ability to practice for life if they date a client, e.g. Dr. Phil).

When you consider why some of these are obviously wrong (cop, judge, therapist, teacher) it's because the individual in question has a responsibility to make a neutral judgement call that will have a meaningful impact on your life.

Now I'm not saying I have the answer to this, but I think we need to begin the discussion by establishing some principles.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#196

Post by meowface »

[deleted] wrote: post #115
meowface wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you send just one job application when you're trying to find a new job? No, but if it's a lucrative job that I really want to work at, then the hiring manager definitely has power over me. >That assumes that transaction is somehow not mutually beneficial. It is mutually beneficial, but you're probably looking at a 30:1 (or higher) benefit ratio here, in his favor. > In the end, she's the one that has power over h…

[deleted]

I didn't downvote any of your posts.

>This is not how market works. The transaction you describe is not beneficial, and if that's what you see here, you don't account for all variables (one that people often miss is time, another is investment).

You were suggesting that he's benefitted by her employment and she's benefitted by being employed. I'm saying that balance is very much in his favor. She is much more at his mercy than he's at hers.

>You redefine what having power over someone means.

Then how do you define it? If you come to some sort of "gatekeeper" in a professional setting, like a hiring manager or investor, and they, right off the bat, they say they want to have sex with you, then how is this at all appropriate given they hold the power to fulfill the person's goals? A relationship like that is the definition of holding power over someone.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#197

Post by mrmondo »

Aron wrote: post #193
mrmondo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Asking out co-workers is a huge no-no' - to me this feels almost anti-humanist to the point where business is truly more important than our own lives, our being, our existence and our own free will. There is a massive difference between asking out co-workers and sexual harassment.

I agree. Answers like the above one indicate a level of dystopia/fear that itself is concerning. Friendship on any level is highly dependent on proximity in space and time. We need to be aware of how our righteous minds work and stop throwing stones all over the place.

Exactly my feelings, I wouldn't hire someone into my team that I didn't think couldn't become my friend should the situation play out as such, it just seems logical to me.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#198

Post by orthoganol »

spamizbad wrote: post #156
hendzen wrote: post #142

Caveat, McClure's behavior was bad. But seeing recent public floggings for misbehavior I now wonder if people are feeling a bit hypersensitive/cautious about any workplace conduct that could potentially be perceived as harassment. Case in point. You work at a technology company. You are attracted to another coworker, who is NOT your subordinate. Is there some manner in which it is acceptable to express your interest?…

I think asking coworkers out is a huge no-no. If the only people in your orbit you feel you can connect with that way are at work, that's a sign your personal life needs some development. However, let's say you have a robust personal life, and you just have this absolutely amazing co-worker, who totally is not your subordinate, and ideally you don't even work directly with, and you want to ask them out... again.. I d…

Give us a break, it's not a huge no-no. One of the most lasting TV series of all time was based entirely on co-worker romances (The Office). I know multiple girls and guys who met their SOs as coworkers.

You may think it's lame (I do too fwiw), but it's still clearly acceptable almost everywhere, so I don't appreciate your gatekeeping.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#199

Post by deepGem »

rburhum wrote: post #186
aortega wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Or is this just not OK at all? You are asking single 18-30 year old who spend most of their waking hours at work, to not make any advance to the only females they probably see in the week. Good luck with trying to fight nature.

sorry dude, but that is not an acceptable answer. We live in a society - with moral and legal structures of what is acceptable. During my the life of this startup and the previous one I have gotten f'ed over royally by a small amount of individuals where they infuriated me incredibly. "nature" would have made me punch them in the face - but that is incredibly unacceptable behavior in a society or work environment. Yo…

Completely agree with this sentiment. If we all start acting out of our 'natural will', the world will just go bonkers.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#200

Post by spamizbad »

orthoganol wrote: post #198
spamizbad wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think asking coworkers out is a huge no-no. If the only people in your orbit you feel you can connect with that way are at work, that's a sign your personal life needs some development. However, let's say you have a robust personal life, and you just have this absolutely amazing co-worker, who totally is not your subordinate, and ideally you don't even work directly with, and you want to ask them out... again.. I d…

Give us a break, it's not a huge no-no. One of the most lasting TV series of all time was based entirely on co-worker romances (The Office). I know multiple girls and guys who met their SOs as coworkers. You may think it's lame (I do too fwiw), but it's still clearly acceptable almost everywhere, so I don't appreciate your gatekeeping.

I don't see how I'm "gatekeeping" by merely answering a question by giving my honest opinion and then pointing out a tactful way to go about doing something I personally would not do.
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