How can a newly born organization build an organizational culture that avoids sexual misconduct as much as possible?
McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation
61–70 of 201 posts
Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is this sexual harassment? It sounds like calling a party where the food is bad "literally Auschwitz". Reverse the genders. Is this still sexual harassment? If not, then this isn't sexual harassment either. I still think this is in poor taste. The attempts to defend it is worse. However, let us commit to refraining from calling it sexual harassment until it is sexual harassment. Calling this sexual harassment is like…
Yes, it is still harassment with the genders reversed. What would make you think otherwise? But that's not actually the bar. It's important to recognize that men and women don't come in on equal footing for these interactions.
I’m playing devil’s advocate here but what if the woman found McClure attractive and didn’t complain because of it. Is it still wrong?
Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is this sexual harassment? It sounds like calling a party where the food is bad "literally Auschwitz". Reverse the genders. Is this still sexual harassment? If not, then this isn't sexual harassment either. I still think this is in poor taste. The attempts to defend it is worse. However, let us commit to refraining from calling it sexual harassment until it is sexual harassment. Calling this sexual harassment is like…
It's sexual harassment. As a male, I would be incredibly uncomfortable if I were in this situation with the genders reversed. Picture: you're interviewing for a job you're wildly enthusiastic about. The hiring decision lies with an older woman who you are not at all attracted to, and she fires off that line at you. Who would feel comfortable in that situation?
What if you are attracted to her?
Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
A more apt analogy would be if you were a young hetero male not attracted to older females (cougars, in parlance) and she were a loan officer at the bank you want to procure a loan from and she hit on you like that. It's something you'd likely report to the bank management but it's not workplace sexual harassment (she's not harassing another lower echelon staffer). Still uncouth and uncalled for and any respectable o…
She was being interviewed for a job, not an investment.
My bad, then yeah.
I know we are way past civics and other classes in school which tried to steer kids into a more "moral" frame of mind, but I think the advent of fraternity culture permeating into daily life beyond secondary education and educational institutions in the educated indicates that something's amiss in our culture.
Music, movies, games, etc., take a pretty jocular view of appropriate behavior --it's not to say there were not predators or other unsavory behavior by people toward others before mass media, but at least in some classes of people it was at least frowned upon whereas now it's openly celebrated with few exceptions.
Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation
#65The one person that I would have never suspected is Dave McClure. Here's a guy who didn't fit the investment world and he was smart and hustled his way in. He started 500 startups with a female co-founder and said he chose her because she was smarter. He saw an opening for himself and talked about playing Moneyball for venture capital. He spoke often in interviews about chasing investments among founders who didn't f…
I'm not sure what McClure actually did, but in the current hypersensitive, politically correct environment, simply asking a woman out that you happen to meet while both of you are involved with a startup seems to be considered "harassment" worthy of destroying careers and businesses. Some of the stories that have surfaced recently clearly step over the line, but many others are vague and lack any clear intent on the…
"both involved in a startup" ... nope. she was applying for a job.
If you read only what he said and nothing else, that would still be obvious. ("i don't know whether to hire you or hit on you"). So perhaps you didn't read even that much of the topic we are discussing?
Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
She was being interviewed for a job, not an investment.
My bad, then yeah. I know we are way past civics and other classes in school which tried to steer kids into a more "moral" frame of mind, but I think the advent of fraternity culture permeating into daily life beyond secondary education and educational institutions in the educated indicates that something's amiss in our culture. Music, movies, games, etc., take a pretty jocular view of appropriate behavior --it's not…
Spot on.
Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, it is still harassment with the genders reversed. What would make you think otherwise? But that's not actually the bar. It's important to recognize that men and women don't come in on equal footing for these interactions.
I’m playing devil’s advocate here but what if the woman found McClure attractive and didn’t complain because of it. Is it still wrong?
If you steal bread, get caught, and are shown mercy by the baker, did you still not commit a crime? Just because you aren't punished doesn't mean you didn't do something wrong.
And before you say "there's no victim if she was okay with it", there was a victim: the company and investors he represented. His actions show that he was not acting with proper ethics, putting them all at risk of lawsuits, criminal action, etc.
The fact of the matter is, when you are a hiring manager, you are in a position of power and that power comes with certain ethical obligations and responsibilities. Not just to those applying for a job or funding, but to your company and it's shareholders.
And the argument about whether she might like it or not doesn't change the fact that it's inappropriate and creepy.
Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Saying "I wasn't sure whether to hire you or hit on you" is fucked up if you're in a position to hire that person. What the actual fuck.
Raping someone is fucked up. I don't see how that sentence is fucked up. If someone said that to me, I would take it as a compliment. To me it says not only are you smart enough to be hired, you're also attractive. Is it better to split it up into two separate sentences? Obviously the guy is hitting on her, if she's not interested then that's fine. I really don't see the problem, could someone please explain?
If you happen to work in California, you should study the law better before you consider a supervisory position. This style of advance is black-letter sexual harassment in California, if done by a supervisor to an employee in their organization. (This wasn't the precise case here, but it was very close, and your wording seems to take in cases beyond this particular scenario.) If these advances continued, it is easy grounds for a lawsuit.
Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, it is still harassment with the genders reversed. What would make you think otherwise? But that's not actually the bar. It's important to recognize that men and women don't come in on equal footing for these interactions.
I’m playing devil’s advocate here but what if the woman found McClure attractive and didn’t complain because of it. Is it still wrong?
Yes, they met as two professionals in the context of an open job position. Inappropriate move #1 was contacting the job applicant over FB, #2 was making a comment about whether or not to "hire" or "hit on" her. The fact that he places the chances of hiring her in relation to "hitting" on her is wildly inappropriate.
If he wanted a relationship, there are infinitely better and more appropriate ways to go about it, especially if he thought she might actually be interested.
Going via FB in the manner that he did is pure 100% creepy behavior.
Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Melinda Gates worked at Microsoft when she met Bill. Should he be publicly tarred and feathered like this? By your logic, he abused his authority and he should not have dated or married his wife because he held power over her - he could have immediately fired her if she had rejected his advances. So where do we draw the line, and why isn't Bill on the firing line in the same way these others are?
I for one don't know any details about what happened between Bill and Melinda. Do you? Maybe they slowly became friends over time and just got closer and closer after they adjust had developed a trusting, non-sexual relationship. If we however would learn that Bill made some remark about feeling sexualy attracted to her the first day they meet then that's a different story and we should be appalled. But we don't know…
> There is a reason Captain Picard never plays poker with the rest of the crew.
That's more likely because Captain Picard shares a romantic relationship with Dr. Crusher [1] -- despite him being Dr. Crusher's boss, and Picard's involvement on the death of her husband.
Life is complicated.
ps: to their defense, this happened over many years, so very different than Dave McClure's situation.