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McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

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Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#31

Post by gduncan12 »

LarryPage wrote: post #28
gduncan12 wrote: post #13

When these reports about sexual harassment are so vague about what actually happened it does a disservice to everyone. How is anyone supposed to know where the line is between hitting on someone and sexual harassment? Many women like to play hard to get. Many men out there are just plain dumb when it comes to how they show their interest in a woman, not malicious. With more specifics they'd be able to learn what's ri…

Saying "I wasn't sure whether to hire you or hit on you" is fucked up if you're in a position to hire that person. What the actual fuck.

Raping someone is fucked up. I don't see how that sentence is fucked up. If someone said that to me, I would take it as a compliment. To me it says not only are you smart enough to be hired, you're also attractive. Is it better to split it up into two separate sentences? Obviously the guy is hitting on her, if she's not interested then that's fine. I really don't see the problem, could someone please explain?

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#32

Post by faitswulff »

rmason wrote: post #2

The one person that I would have never suspected is Dave McClure. Here's a guy who didn't fit the investment world and he was smart and hustled his way in. He started 500 startups with a female co-founder and said he chose her because she was smarter. He saw an opening for himself and talked about playing Moneyball for venture capital. He spoke often in interviews about chasing investments among founders who didn't f…

I agree, but I think that even the most feminist men are raised and inculcated in a misogynist society. You likely do have a good idea of who McClure is. But it's a numbers game - given a position of power and a systemic gendered inequity, there are a lot more opportunities for a man to fuck up. That's why we, and I speak as a (cisgendered/heterosexual) man myself, have to be constantly vigilant about our actions and introspective about our thoughts and where they come from.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#33

Post by TheCondor »

origami777 wrote: post #24
gduncan12 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the article. Really hard to figure out what he did or how bad it was. Did he cat call a woman who just wasn't interested, or did he lock a woman in an office and forcibly rape her? Article doesn't say one way or another.

I agree with your sentiment (could've been worded better). Without clarification it seems like people are assuming the worst. Given Dave's reputation that doesn't seem fair. Hopefully the community will get some clarification so that those who work(ed) with Dave can make an informed judgement call for themselves about how to proceed with their relationship. Edit: added parenthesis to first sentence.

Women reported it, right? The Times article describes it. Women seeking jobs were propositioned and then denied jobs after rebuffing, sexist comments were made while they were fund raising and suggestive texts were sent. It doesn't seem like rape level stuff but it's still bad and unacceptable.

It's never a good idea to approach someone romantically if there is some kind of superior/subordinate relationship. it just seems really messy with some sort of VC type relationship too, maybe almost a worst case scenarios.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#34

Post by michaelf »

gduncan12 wrote: post #31
LarryPage wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "I wasn't sure whether to hire you or hit on you" is fucked up if you're in a position to hire that person. What the actual fuck.

Raping someone is fucked up. I don't see how that sentence is fucked up. If someone said that to me, I would take it as a compliment. To me it says not only are you smart enough to be hired, you're also attractive. Is it better to split it up into two separate sentences? Obviously the guy is hitting on her, if she's not interested then that's fine. I really don't see the problem, could someone please explain?

Seriously, I think "Always Sunny" explains it best (i.e., because of "the implication")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yUafzOXHPE

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#35

Post by neom »

devinmontgomery wrote: post #30
rmason wrote: post #2

The one person that I would have never suspected is Dave McClure. Here's a guy who didn't fit the investment world and he was smart and hustled his way in. He started 500 startups with a female co-founder and said he chose her because she was smarter. He saw an opening for himself and talked about playing Moneyball for venture capital. He spoke often in interviews about chasing investments among founders who didn't f…

I think there are both 1) sleezeballs who intentionally take advantage of their position and 2) men who don't realized what they're doing and need to use better judgement. Without knowing details, there are at least indications in both McClure's and Sacca's pasts that they may (hopefully) be in the latter group. And hopefully this will help both groups get smaller.

Uhmmm.....

"In 2014, Sarah Kunst, 31, an entrepreneur, said she discussed a potential job at 500 Startups, a start-up incubator in San Francisco. During the recruiting process, Mr. McClure, a founder of 500 Startups and an investor, sent her a Facebook message that read in part, “I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you.”"

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#36

Post by neom »

TheCondor wrote: post #33
origami777 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your sentiment (could've been worded better). Without clarification it seems like people are assuming the worst. Given Dave's reputation that doesn't seem fair. Hopefully the community will get some clarification so that those who work(ed) with Dave can make an informed judgement call for themselves about how to proceed with their relationship. Edit: added parenthesis to first sentence.

Women reported it, right? The Times article describes it. Women seeking jobs were propositioned and then denied jobs after rebuffing, sexist comments were made while they were fund raising and suggestive texts were sent. It doesn't seem like rape level stuff but it's still bad and unacceptable. It's never a good idea to approach someone romantically if there is some kind of superior/subordinate relationship. it just…

Why in gods name is RAPE the bar we hold ourselves to regarding how we treat others????? I'm actually sick to my stomach reading HN this evening.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#37

Post by drunkenmonkey »

rmason wrote: post #2

The one person that I would have never suspected is Dave McClure. Here's a guy who didn't fit the investment world and he was smart and hustled his way in. He started 500 startups with a female co-founder and said he chose her because she was smarter. He saw an opening for himself and talked about playing Moneyball for venture capital. He spoke often in interviews about chasing investments among founders who didn't f…

It's entirely possible he is being set up. Anyone who doesn't see this angle is foolish, and honestly shouldn't say anything publicly about it due to their naïveté.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#38

Post by drunkenmonkey »

rmason wrote: post #11
horsecaptin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, after all these years of looking up to him, how quickly you turn your back. Does he not deserve the benefit of your doubt?

What is particularly telling for me that instead of trying to explain himself he just ran away. Sometimes if you rally around someone reflexively you're empowering a predator. Justin Calbeck got at least two passes we know about previous to his current troubles. At my alma mater there's a doctor who had people covering for him for fifteen years until a brave woman accused him publicly of sexually assaulting her durin…

On the contra side of this is Trevor Fitzgibbon, who was accused of sexual assault, had the investigation dropped, and yet is nonetheless blackballed by the PR industry.

Again, those whose minds are stuck on repeat -- whose own minds trap them into believing women over men -- are fools who should not be heeded. Like Nazis who sing hymns while Jews are marched to the gas chambers.

The idiocy is real, and the effects on society are damning.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#39

Post by downandout »

rmason wrote: post #2

The one person that I would have never suspected is Dave McClure. Here's a guy who didn't fit the investment world and he was smart and hustled his way in. He started 500 startups with a female co-founder and said he chose her because she was smarter. He saw an opening for himself and talked about playing Moneyball for venture capital. He spoke often in interviews about chasing investments among founders who didn't f…

I'm not sure what McClure actually did, but in the current hypersensitive, politically correct environment, simply asking a woman out that you happen to meet while both of you are involved with a startup seems to be considered "harassment" worthy of destroying careers and businesses. Some of the stories that have surfaced recently clearly step over the line, but many others are vague and lack any clear intent on the part of the accused to make the woman uncomfortable, let alone harass or assault them.

Intent matters. Men who use positions of power to intimidate women into doing things they don't want to do should absolutely be punished. Men who happen to be attracted to women that they work with/around who decide to politely ask them out shouldn't be.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#40

Post by devinmontgomery »

neom wrote: post #35
devinmontgomery wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are both 1) sleezeballs who intentionally take advantage of their position and 2) men who don't realized what they're doing and need to use better judgement. Without knowing details, there are at least indications in both McClure's and Sacca's pasts that they may (hopefully) be in the latter group. And hopefully this will help both groups get smaller.

Uhmmm..... "In 2014, Sarah Kunst, 31, an entrepreneur, said she discussed a potential job at 500 Startups, a start-up incubator in San Francisco. During the recruiting process, Mr. McClure, a founder of 500 Startups and an investor, sent her a Facebook message that read in part, “I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you.”"

That message was absolutely inappropriate. Women should be able to raise money without being hit on by investors.

My comment was in response to the idea that Dave was secretly different than his outward appearance. I don't know him, I don't know the situation. But I think otherwise good people can do things they should apologize for and stop.

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