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How Not to Fix Soccer

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Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#121

Post by pbhjpbhj »

yardie wrote: post #73
ErrantX wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time it next time this happens. Barring injury a game does not frequently stop for a full 30 seconds, even when contentious decisions happen. And in cases where it does I wouldn't want to see it stopped even longer. One of the attractions of the game is that the referee is the law; he makes a decision on his best judgement and that is the game. I see your point; and it has merit. But I think it really detracts from t…

Cheating (especially diving) already detracts from the game. On top of that you have refs given god-like powers to determine a game with their human shortcomings. Already, I can't take the world cup seriously. 2006, it was the Italians diving to get free penalty kicks. Now, I can't even trust the refs to make honest calls. I'll continue to watch the games until something better comes along.

>Now, I can't even trust the refs to make honest calls.

Are you talking about a particular incident of dishonesty? Refs tend to be impartial as they benefit from being impartial (wages, honour) whilst would lose by being noticeably partial (lost license to ref, no more wages).

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#122

Post by pbhjpbhj »

zalew wrote: post #25
Maro wrote: post #16

I am familiar with the FIFA's reasoning, and I just don't think it holds up. The best example is the NBA: advanced technical rules at NBA games aren't stopping anyone from playing basketball on the courts or at the High School level. Also, the rules are different anyways. At the FIFA level, games are played on large fields for 2x45 minutes, there are 4 refs, etc. AFAIR HS level games were 2x30 minutes and we were luc…

> lying about who touched the ball last, lying about what happened, lying to convince the ref. lying doesn't matter, it's just expressing emotions. you almost never see a referee backing up from a decision, more often discussions result a yellow card. > Would it really kill soccer if we had video replay? it wouldn't if they were limited, just as switching players is. if one team had one single chance of calling for a…

>> lying about who touched the ball last, lying about what happened, lying to convince the ref.

>lying doesn't matter, it's just expressing emotions. you almost never see a referee backing up from a decision, more often discussions result a yellow card.

Lying matters to some people - good sportsmen for example. When I played (only amateur: Uni/Sunday league) I'd tell the ref if he'd made a wrong decision in my favour.

IMO lying is not a proper part of [association] football; that's why I gave up on footie some time ago.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#123

Post by philwelch »

bialecki wrote: post #120

Get rid of ties and soccer is 10x better. Nothing more frustrating than watching a game for 90 minutes that ends in a tie. This is one of the big reasons playoff hockey is much better than during the regular season -- ever watched a game go into 5 OTs?

This is a pretty common American cultural expectation, but it would really hurt soccer to have matches go into extra time unnecessarily. The fatigue and injury rate is already too high--look at how many great players are sitting out this World Cup, for instance.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#124

Post by philwelch »

starkfist wrote: post #115
lutorm wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be happier if the rules said "the player who most convincingly acts will win the call"? Then it wouldn't be cheating, but part of the game... I don't think it's nearly as bad as the American incarnation of hockey, where fistfights are tolerated with a slap on the wrist. Talk about encouraging unsportsmanlike behavior. If you tried that in soccer, you'd at the very least get a red card, if not more.

Fistfights aren't just tolerated in hockey, they are half the reason anyone watches the game...

And the fistfights, from what I gather, are quite well refereed--the gloves come off, one player wins, the referee referees the fight, and then you go back to hockey.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#125

Post by pbhjpbhj »

avar wrote: post #18

What football (I'm European) needs is much larger penalties for feigning injuries and taking dives. There's a good reason you see players rolling around on the pitch like bruised 4 year old girls, it's beneficial in the long run to the player feigning injury. You're more likely to win a beneficial free kick from it than two yellow cards in a row, so the practice continues. Some national football associations (e.g. It…

>players rolling around on the pitch like bruised 4 year old girls

I've never seen a 4yo girl (or boy) act like such a pillock; they cry when they're hurt and then normally get on with it. I think you do a disservice to 4 year olds.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#126

Post by pbhjpbhj »

daleharvey wrote: post #68

this is fairly obviously wrong? children dont play to a clock in their backyard, they very very rarely play offside and they certainly dont give any yellow or red cards. I agree part of the beauty of the game is that you can play the same game in the park with friends, but most of the arguments were against details of the same game, not changing it (stopping clock, replays etc).

They should play the proper game without a referee and then bar anyone afterwards who lied or cheated from ever playing again.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#127

Post by pbhjpbhj »

zalew wrote: post #19
hugothefrog wrote: post #4

I was trying to think of a good reason why FIFA continues to refuse to introduce any form of video replay/video referee, and the reason Ed outlines are just what I concluded. The game is supposed to be exactly the same when played at World Cup level as it is when played at Saturday morning club level, and even below that - the streets of Brazil, etc. Fifa has got its eye on the global market for playing football, whi…

He forgets about one thing - pro football is not managed by a single referee because it'd be impossible, he has 2 side referees to help. Also, in amateur (edit: for fun, not non-pro leagues) football you usually play without offsides or almost without them; while in pro there is a ridiculous situation where a rule meant to prevent static play (standing in front of the goal waiting for a pass) is often ripping the gam…

Certainly when I played Sunday League and at school we had linesmen. Junior school (We'd have kickabouts with more players (10+ on pitch) at senior school and play offside sometimes, occasionally someone would ref but more often it was reffing by consensus/honesty and with reduced players it was hard to get off-side to work, normally we'd just accuse someone of "goal hanging" and it would be enough.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#128

Post by fortybillion »

philwelch wrote: post #112
lenni wrote: post #2

Question for the Americans: Is soccer really on the brink of becoming a popular sport in your country? I read that ESPN is investing lots of money into the world cup coverage and reddit is full of related submissions.

It's always been a popular sport in America for amateur players, kids, and women (our women's team is the best in the world). Men's soccer on a professional level is trending upwards, though. In college towns and the like you'll see a handful of people wearing Man U shirts or something. MLS is expanding, and in some cities it catches on rather quickly (Seattle, for instance). It's still hampered by the fact that we h…

> it's a top 4 sport already (displacing hockey)

Not a chance. The NHL is enjoying some of its highest ratings ever.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#129

Post by lutorm »

starkfist wrote: post #115
lutorm wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be happier if the rules said "the player who most convincingly acts will win the call"? Then it wouldn't be cheating, but part of the game... I don't think it's nearly as bad as the American incarnation of hockey, where fistfights are tolerated with a slap on the wrist. Talk about encouraging unsportsmanlike behavior. If you tried that in soccer, you'd at the very least get a red card, if not more.

Fistfights aren't just tolerated in hockey, they are half the reason anyone watches the game...

That's my point. So who are Americans to come and complain about unsportsmanlike behavior in soccer??

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#130

Post by pg »

bukkake wrote: post #84
davnola wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone faking an injury on my pitch used to get a red card for conduct detrimental to the game. Sorry, this is flat-out dangerous. You are not 100% certain who is really injured and who is not faking, and you are incentivising players who may not be sure whether or not they are injured to play on. I agree with your other 9 points, though.

You are correct. I was incentivising players who may not be sure whether or not they are injured to play on. Serious injuries (i.e. more than a sprain) at the amateur level are vanishingly rare. If you want to overcome the "sport for pussies" stigma that American Football players love to attach to soccer, there's got to be some tough love, at least in the USA.

Serious injuries (i.e. more than a sprain) at the amateur level are vanishingly rare.

Not exactly vanishingly. My over-30 team used to lose several people per season to knee injuries.

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