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How Not to Fix Soccer

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11–20 of 151 posts

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#11
post #5

I play soccer and it seems like it doesnt need to be fixed. It is a beautiful game in all its glorious simplicity. or in hn style - soccer may be the the ultimate example of a MVP or 'minimal viable professional game' that you can play with a ball and two teams =)

Based on the events of the past year, the officiating most certainly does need to be fixed.

yes i see where you are coming from, some officials have been making bad calls. but some would argue that the refereeing is part of the game and instituting video replays etc might unnecessarily complicate matters and ruin the flow of the game.

i play soccer in an amatuer league every weekend and although the referees generally are not of a high standard, I still enjoy it. its part of the game.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#12
post #2

Question for the Americans: Is soccer really on the brink of becoming a popular sport in your country? I read that ESPN is investing lots of money into the world cup coverage and reddit is full of related submissions.

> Question for the Americans: Is soccer really on the brink of becoming a popular sport in your country? No, but it's slowly trending upwards. Without looking it up, the top American spectator sports are American football, baseball, basketball, NASCAR racing, hockey, golf, and tennis. The problem is that the best American athletes look to one of top three American sports - if you look at top NBA and NFL players, many…

NBA players and soccer? You must be joking. Unless you want 11 Peter Crouches running around the field...

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#13

What a brilliant example of scalability in a real world sense.

Not really. This concept of "scalability", while alluring at first glance, falls flat on multiple counts.

First and foremost, it verges on a straw man; Felten argues against unspecified "Americans" with largely-unspecified views, when in fact criticism has been quite specific and has come from practically every part of the globe. The things people are asking to have "fixed" are not the lack of an official clock or any of his other examples; the things people are asking to have fixed seem mostly to be abysmally inconsistent officiating standards. Which, in an article praising the uniformity of the game at nearly all levels, is a glaring oversight.

Second, Felten's concept of "scalability" is deeply flawed; we might as well argue for the World Cup final to be played on a parking lot with piled-up sticks for goals -- after all, your neighborhood game doesn't have those big fancy stadiums, does it? Privileging some aspects of the game by allowing them to be radically different at higher levels of play, while arbitrarily requiring other aspects to be uniform at all levels, is frankly irrational.

Worst of all, he touches on baseball as a game which "scales", but fails to note that while the basic rules of the game are the same at practically every level, the implementation varies considerably and the game is better for that. For example, a local sandlot game doesn't need six professional umpires, instant replay and a strike-zone-tracking pitch-plotting camera system, but a major-league championship game does. This allows each game to have the level of officiating it actually needs, rather than forcing impossible burdens on the local game or false austerity on the professional game.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#14
post #10
post #6

I agree with the article, and the scaling down reasons for not changing the rules for the most part. However, when players are being paid millions, and countries reputations are on the line, there is no scaled down version of that anyhow. And therefore... There is only one thing I would change: if a violation is noted by one of the refs (such as an offsides), and a goal is scored during that same time the violation f…

Please no! One of the best parts of Football (IMO) is that the ref rules; it introduces that element of risk that can lead to the excruciating moments that define the sport. "we was robbed". Besides; in the example you cite in the vast majority of cases it will be ruled as a no-goal (I've seen it happen quite a few times this world cup).

I agree. Referee decisions are a neverending source of outrage and drama and exactly the reason people love football. It makes it a human thing.

The cynic would say that it provides emotionally crippled men with an outlet for showing their emotions.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#15
Can't remember which match it was I was watching but 2 minutes into a 3 minute additional time at the end of the match someone had a cut on their head or similar, at least a minute of play was lost but the ref added about 20 seconds additional time. Seems really unprofessional not knowing much much time is actually going to be played, especially at such an important tournament. Seems to be abused to, after the 90 minutes there seems to be a lot of pointless substitutes where the player walks off nice and slow to eat up time.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#16
I am familiar with the FIFA's reasoning, and I just don't think it holds up. The best example is the NBA: advanced technical rules at NBA games aren't stopping anyone from playing basketball on the courts or at the High School level.

Also, the rules are different anyways. At the FIFA level, games are played on large fields for 2x45 minutes, there are 4 refs, etc. AFAIR HS level games were 2x30 minutes and we were lucky to have 1 ref, and so on. So the rules are already different at different levels, and people can deal with it.

Would it really kill soccer if we had video replay? Match outcomes are routinely altered by erroneous ref. decisions, decisions which the whole world except the ref. knows are erroneous because we see the 1000FPS close up 30 seconds later. It's become so nonsensical that at the recent Brazil game, the brazilian players after a bad ref. decision to send off Kaka with a red card were begging the ref. to look up on the stadion screen to see the replay which clearly showed nothing happened, but he couldn't be bothered.

I think everybody would be able to accept that at High School level games there's no video replay, and the ref. makes mistakes, while rejoicing that World Cup level games are not influenced by bad decisions avoidable just by having a 5th ref. look at the replays.

This would also move the game towards actual fair play in the sense that players wouldn't be constantly diving, lying about who touched the ball last, lying about what happened, lying to convince the ref.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#17
Three counter-points:

1. FIFA makes a ton of money from the World Cup. The sponsorship and protection efforts of the sponsorship are ridiculously elaborate.

2. Even FIFA doesn't scale the game linearly. In the World Cup there are always 3 refs on the field, even though really only 1 is needed. Further, there are many different types of football balls (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_%28ball%29 ), so again, the game played on the streets or school leagues is not necessarily exactly the same as the World Cup.

3. FIFA constantly innovates in the making of the actual ball. Every WC we get a new ball that has different characteristics. This year's ball is the most consistent in distance and trajectory in tests (i.e. hit it the same way and you'll get the same volley).

With all that said, I don't think "maintaining consistency" is the reason FIFA refuses to introduce replay refs. I think it's more about politics: they have always supported the number 1 ref as the final arbiter of play and introducing a replay ref would undermine this long-held traditional philosophy.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#18
What football (I'm European) needs is much larger penalties for feigning injuries and taking dives.

There's a good reason you see players rolling around on the pitch like bruised 4 year old girls, it's beneficial in the long run to the player feigning injury. You're more likely to win a beneficial free kick from it than two yellow cards in a row, so the practice continues.

Some national football associations (e.g. Italy) start training kids to do this at a young age.

It would probably stop overnight if a player seen taking a dive were to directly receive a red card, or a three game ban.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#19

I was trying to think of a good reason why FIFA continues to refuse to introduce any form of video replay/video referee, and the reason Ed outlines are just what I concluded. The game is supposed to be exactly the same when played at World Cup level as it is when played at Saturday morning club level, and even below that - the streets of Brazil, etc. Fifa has got its eye on the global market for playing football, whi…

He forgets about one thing - pro football is not managed by a single referee because it'd be impossible, he has 2 side referees to help. Also, in amateur (edit: for fun, not non-pro leagues) football you usually play without offsides or almost without them; while in pro there is a ridiculous situation where a rule meant to prevent static play (standing in front of the goal waiting for a pass) is often ripping the game of dynamic (halted actions because the side referee saw that one player's foot was 10cm pass the line of defence).

Football is scaled down mostly because you don't need expensive infrastructure to play and train - 2 sticks in the ground or draw lines on a fence and you're ready to kick - no equipment (baseball, hockey) besides the ball itself, no need to build anything (basketball, hockey). I think that's a far more important factor in football popularity than the rules set.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#20
post #16

I am familiar with the FIFA's reasoning, and I just don't think it holds up. The best example is the NBA: advanced technical rules at NBA games aren't stopping anyone from playing basketball on the courts or at the High School level. Also, the rules are different anyways. At the FIFA level, games are played on large fields for 2x45 minutes, there are 4 refs, etc. AFAIR HS level games were 2x30 minutes and we were luc…

> The best example is the NBA: advanced technical rules at NBA games aren't stopping anyone from playing basketball on the courts or at the High School level.

alternatively, basketball has so many rules that it prevents first timers from truly picking up the game at all... ie. a non-intuitive game

> Would it really kill soccer if we had video replay?

Has the lack of video replays killed soccer? Why stop at video replays at all? why not have a group of referees sitting in the comfort of an airconditioned room with muliple camera angles available to them making decisions about the game which are displayed on the screen?

would this kill the game? it is debatable. But would this significantly change the game? yes.... would I want to play in such a game? maybe not..

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