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Tesla Model S and Model 3 comparison

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Re: Tesla Model S and Model 3 comparison

#271
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the autobahn.

Elementary traffic rules still apply, and driving far above the "recommended speed" ("Richtgeschwindigkeit") of 130km/h puts extra burden of care on you. You have to expect people driving speeds around that.

Sure, but that thinking won't help you if you're the guy that someone crashes into because you can't go faster on the left lane... You might be in the right, but I'd wager the mortician won't care.

Re: Tesla Model S and Model 3 comparison

#272
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really need to overtake someone doing 130 km?

No, at least not for me: My plan is buying the Model 3 and then engaging the autopilot in such a case - and just travel behind whoever is driving with 130 km/h in front of me. So for me - a reliable autopilot for the Autobahn is much more important than the top speed.

My reply has been downvoted to oblivion. Let me try again.

1. Tesla autopilot has a disengage rate of 182 in 550 miles. This cannot be safe in anyway for any kind of driving http://blog.caranddriver.com/in-the-self-driving-race-waymo-...

2. Apart from the fatalities there have been many other accidents with Tesla https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/05/another-driver-says-tes...

http://grist.org/business-technology/whats-the-point-of-self...

3. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/03/the-custo...

4. Check YouTube for any number of autopilot crashes

Re: Tesla Model S and Model 3 comparison

#273

If you're one of the people who put down the $1K refundable deposit, how do you feel about this page? I understand they're trying to push Model S sales, but don't do it at the expense of customers willing to wait years and put a hefty deposit down. This strikes me as a rare misplay by Tesla. The Model 3 comes with a glass roof standard so it's conveniently left out of the premium options section -- that's pretty misl…

I lined up pre-reveal to put my preorder in but I've already basically decided it's not for me. Looks kind of bland and the interior appears like it might be ridiculously spartan and the 4wd and performance versions are quite a way off, and their build quality will probably leave a lot to be desired for a while.

Re: Tesla Model S and Model 3 comparison

#274
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what it is. They have more than enough reservations for the Model 3 at this point, and have no reason to try for more until they work through most of the backlog. For someone looking at a Tesla, they would much rather get $70,000+ from them now than $35,000+ from them in a year or two. Add to this the fact that a lot of people have apparently managed to interpret Model 3 as an upgrade to Model S and yo…

"For someone looking at a Tesla, they would much rather get $70,000+ from them now than $35,000+ from them in a year or two." If they want to sell more Model S, perhaps they should go check out a bottom of the line, zero options 3series/A4/CClass and see if they can bring their interior details and quality up, from below, to match those lower end cars. Also, style and taste continue to march on ... large flat panels…

They're not particularly competitive on the interior front, for a variety of reasons.

1) They're still selling as many model S vehicles as thye can make. Perhaps the market will soften after Model 3 introduction or increase on Tesla's manufacturing capacity.

2) Any heavy add-on increases the weight of the vehicle and decreases the rated distance on a single electric charge. From their point of view it's better to let the aftermarket for interior accessories to develop, as then any add-on is at owner's discretion.

3) People who shop on interior will still go to their local Mercedes, BMW or Lexus dealer. Even other luxury brands (Infiniti, Cadillac, Acura) have had a tough time competing with decades of experience.

Re: Tesla Model S and Model 3 comparison

#275
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For someone looking at a Tesla, they would much rather get $70,000+ from them now than $35,000+ from them in a year or two." If they want to sell more Model S, perhaps they should go check out a bottom of the line, zero options 3series/A4/CClass and see if they can bring their interior details and quality up, from below, to match those lower end cars. Also, style and taste continue to march on ... large flat panels…

They're not particularly competitive on the interior front, for a variety of reasons. 1) They're still selling as many model S vehicles as thye can make. Perhaps the market will soften after Model 3 introduction or increase on Tesla's manufacturing capacity. 2) Any heavy add-on increases the weight of the vehicle and decreases the rated distance on a single electric charge. From their point of view it's better to let…

I don't think 1) is entirely true. The fact that they're pushing the S over the 3 like this would suggest that they wouldn't sell out their full production capacity naturally. Of course, it's far easier to put up a couple of web pages than to redesign the car, and they have a long way to go before they have to think about such radical changes.

Re: Tesla Model S and Model 3 comparison

#276
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elementary traffic rules still apply, and driving far above the "recommended speed" ("Richtgeschwindigkeit") of 130km/h puts extra burden of care on you. You have to expect people driving speeds around that.

Sure, but that thinking won't help you if you're the guy that someone crashes into because you can't go faster on the left lane... You might be in the right, but I'd wager the mortician won't care.

I really liked going 112 km/h with that 200D, but I also had faster cars. 200 km/h is my personal speed limit: the car might be able to go faster, but I can't.

It's the responsibility of the fast driver to make sure they don't crash into anything. And if the road (autobahn) has a curve in it and I can't see far enough, I have to slow down.

So when I'm the slow guy, it's my responsibility to look in the rear mirror to see if there is a car coming from behind, and if there is, of course I don't switch to the left lane.

I would also avoid switching to the left lane just behind a curve. But there is also great responsibility on the fast driver to make sure that they are able to stop.

As far as I know, not that many accidents on the autobahn where the fast driver rear-ends the slow one.

Re: Tesla Model S and Model 3 comparison

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your response is a bit narrow and takes my response out of context. It also ignores a number of other issues to make electric cars look better than they really are. 1. Electric cars use a lot of copper and lithium. Mining of both are horribly polluting. The worst EPA superfund site is a former copper mine. Lithium mining is also pretty bad. However they are at least localized. Electric cars still need power,…

Hey thanks for the reply. Sounds like you've also thought quite a bit about this. I'd like to offer my thoughts on your numbered points. For 1, you're right, we have to mine minerals to get these cars to work. I'm not really sure how much more polluting the production of Lithium and copper is compared to steel, but I assume it's bad. However in the long term I assume most of those polluting mining processes could be…

Haha. Not really, I'm actually a millenial (on the older end of the spectrum though). I can see what you may think I'm Gen X though. It may surprise you to know that I'm actually an environmentalist as well. I was definitely more active and passionate about it when I was younger. Time and other priorities have dulled my passion over time -- regrettably.

Re: Tesla Model S and Model 3 comparison

#278
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably more reasonable to compare it to other electric cars in its price range - the Chevy Bolt and the Nissan Leaf. Neither of these cars have particularly luxurious dashboards, interiors, or other extras.

Both the Chevy Bolt and the Nissan Leaf have two displays, a driver display and a center display. Further, the driver displays are particularly large and robust, even when compared to more expensive vehicles. The Tesla Model 3 completely lacks the driver display. Bolt: http://article.images.consumerreports.org/prod/content/dam/c... Leaf: https://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/nissan/leaf/2017/ot/2017_...

And the Bolt has it's base model listed at $37.5k vs $35k for the Model 3. There's also a pretty clear difference in... style here. The Bolt is Mr. Practical and the Model 3 is Mr. Fun. Pretending that these two cars are the same thing is absurd, they happen to have one thing in common: they are both electrics.

But I'm not going to compare a Volkswagon Bug to a Ford Mustang just because they both have combustion engines.

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