[deleted]
Chelsea Manning released from prison
201–210 of 307 posts
Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
But he was not a whistleblower, there was nothing important to leak besides bunch of state's secrets. The leaks held no value.
I think you mean _she_.
I think he meant exactly what he meant. Wasn't Manning still identifying as "he" when the leaks were done? Or was she already transitioned at that point?
I hate this whole walking on eggshells around gender/identity politics. It detracts from the discussion for no valid reason.
Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
How would one know? Because of the media, power balances, legalities etc of US life, they obviously wouldn't be doing them in an open Third World/Banana Republic style (where, depending on the country/political climate, the state doesn't hesitate much to semi-openly get rid of enemies and more or less everybody knows they did it).
How would one know? Because people who would be targets of political murders don't die at a statistically unusual rate. Unless you think they are also being secretly replaced with more pliant clones/cyborgs or we are all just copied over to a less unruly simulation. Then it would be harder to know.
>Because people who would be targets of political murders don't die at a statistically unusual rate.
They don't have to be well known people that you would identify as targets. In fact those would be the worst to target. They could be potential whistleblowers you never learned of, for example.
That said, sticking to well known people that could be targets, there's a large variety of those to e.g. MLK Jr, Malcom X, JFK, Robert Kennedy -- to name but a few in a single decade's span.
Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison
#204This is long overdue. Chelsea will probably be doing interviews soon, and since [she's already been pretty outspoken about internet freedoms][1], she may even bring some much needed attention to issues like net neutrality, government surveillance and the never ending erosion of our online rights. Let's hope the media doesn't tear her apart. [1]: https://twitter.com/xychelsea/status/847264510247190532
I'm hoping she takes some time (at least a few months) to visit friends and family and unwind from her time in prison before the media ensnares her, even a little.
(warning - not intellectually gratifying)
For selfish reasons I hope she sort of fades from public attention, just so I don't keep having Elvis Costello stuck in my head every time she's in the news.
Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
You might be surprised at how dangerous it is to be trans. Wikipedia maintains a list of unlawfully killed trans people at this page[1] I guess there are more trans people than informants so maybe there's some statistical point to be made there, but frankly I'm not sure why you picked this nit to begin with. I think it's important to recognize, rather than downplay the risks faced by marginalized groups in the US and…
> unlawfully killed trans people As a Dutch person I was very confused for a minute, but then I remembered there are indeed lawfully killed people in other countries. (And while writing this, I remembered euthanesia is legal here, but that's not killing in my mind because the person chose it for themselves and the given reason cannot be an external, solvable condition.)
There are also accidental deaths, in which a person is killed, but it is not ruled unlawful.
Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree. And I doubt his fate is going to get any better in the future, unfortunately.
His fate is pretty good as-is, right? I hear Russia is a beautiful country.
I wouldn't characterize it as pretty good. He's living day to day, and at any point Russia could change their minds. Snowden basically sacrificed his life and freedom for the rest of us.
Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
But he was not a whistleblower, there was nothing important to leak besides bunch of state's secrets. The leaks held no value.
I'd argue that the Collateral Murder videos triggered considerable controversy and criticism against the US military's attitude to airstrikes. The cable leaks also caused a fair amount of political embarrassment. So it depends on what you consider to be valuable - I'd say direct evidence of airstrikes being triggered against civilians with minimal oversight alone is valuable to a citizenry that wants to keep tabs on…
If Manning had only leaked the video in an attempt to bring light on what she perceived as a war crime, she would've had a case as a whistleblower. Indiscriminately leaking thousands of documents where she had no idea of the contents, is not whistleblowing. That's why she ended up with the sentence that she did.
Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison
#208I disagree with what she did, she probably made the world a much less safe place and caused thousands if not millions of deaths through wikileaks role in inciting the Arab spring. Still I'm convinced she did it with the best of intentions and the genuine belief that she would make the world more peaceful and open. I guess she was naive so I'm glad to see her released early.
Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison
#209Now the question is: will Assange follow up with his promise?
Do you seriously think that this half-measure is sufficient to call him out on it though?
It seems to me to be too little (clemency instead of a pardon) too late (she already spent a horrific amount of time under torturous conditions in prison).
Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison
#210Meanwhile, while the masses are distracted, Oscar Rivera is also released from house arrest today (and was released from US prisons on 2/9/2017).
Who is Oscar Rivera you ask?
>Oscar López Rivera (born January 6, 1943) is a Puerto Rican independence activist[1] who was one of the leaders of the FALN.
What was FALN you ask?
>The Fuerzas Armadas de Liberación Nacional (English: Armed Forces of National Liberation, FALN) was a Puerto Rican clandestine paramilitary organization that, through direct action, advocated complete independence for Puerto Rico. At the time of its dissolution, the FALN was responsible for more than 120 bomb attacks on United States targets between 1974 and 1983 that killed 5 people and injured several others
Thanks Obama, for freeing people responsible for killing Americans via actual terrorism. Oh, and the Clintons? Yeah, they started this by commuting the sentences of 16 FALN members simply to help Hillary get votes. And the best part? It wasn't the members of FALN asking for clemency, but rather the white house pushing it- for votes. And it worked.
>Hillary Rodham Clinton was in the midst of her state-wide "listening tour" in anticipation of her run for the U.S. Senate in New York, a state which included 1.3 million Hispanics. Three members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus -- Luis V. Gutierrez (D., Ill.), Jose E. Serrano, (D., N.Y.) and Nydia M. Velazquez, (D., N.Y.) -- along with local Hispanic politicians and leftist human-rights advocates, had been agitating for years on behalf of the FALN cases directly to the White House and first lady.
This is nothing more than a clever smoke screen by Obama to get you people to ignore the fact that him and the Clintons have dedicated themselves to freeing terrorists. LET THE DOWNVOTES BEGIN, HN
That's right, flag my posts because you dislike the truth. Keep it up, prove my point.