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Chelsea Manning released from prison

cnn.com

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Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#161

Post by [deleted] »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #135
r3bl wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those wondering, WikiLeaks claimed[0] that they'll agree to Assange being extradited to the US if Obama grants clemency to Manning, but later on Assange's lawyers said[1] that this was only applicable if Manning gets released immediately, and that the deal Obama gave was still not enough for Assange to agree to be extradited. [0] https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/819630102787059713 [1] http://thehill.com/polic…

Clemency would mean that she was pardoned, yes? But she was merely released early on a commuted sentence.

[deleted]

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#162

Post by teraflop »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #135
r3bl wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those wondering, WikiLeaks claimed[0] that they'll agree to Assange being extradited to the US if Obama grants clemency to Manning, but later on Assange's lawyers said[1] that this was only applicable if Manning gets released immediately, and that the deal Obama gave was still not enough for Assange to agree to be extradited. [0] https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/819630102787059713 [1] http://thehill.com/polic…

Clemency would mean that she was pardoned, yes? But she was merely released early on a commuted sentence.

Pardoning and commutation are both forms of clemency.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#163

Post by kingkawn »

fsloth wrote: post #11
pavel_lishin wrote: post #2

I hope she's alright after this; there might be people literally gunning for her, even if she wasn't trans.

I don't think political murders targeting individuals are that common in the US. Or am I completely wrong?

It is true, we are experts at effecting the social death so that the continued existence of the body is only a lingering triviality.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#165

Post by uiri »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #135
r3bl wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those wondering, WikiLeaks claimed[0] that they'll agree to Assange being extradited to the US if Obama grants clemency to Manning, but later on Assange's lawyers said[1] that this was only applicable if Manning gets released immediately, and that the deal Obama gave was still not enough for Assange to agree to be extradited. [0] https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/819630102787059713 [1] http://thehill.com/polic…

Clemency would mean that she was pardoned, yes? But she was merely released early on a commuted sentence.

Clemency covers both pardons and commutations of sentences.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#166

Post by lucb1e »

arglebarnacle wrote: post #113
beaconstudios wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the "having been a whistleblower in the most powerful government on the planet" part of Chelsea's story is considerably more risky than the "is transgendered" part. There aren't many people running around "gunning for" trans people in the same sense that there are people "gunning for" informants. Primarily in the sense that in the latter case they use actual guns.

You might be surprised at how dangerous it is to be trans. Wikipedia maintains a list of unlawfully killed trans people at this page[1] I guess there are more trans people than informants so maybe there's some statistical point to be made there, but frankly I'm not sure why you picked this nit to begin with. I think it's important to recognize, rather than downplay the risks faced by marginalized groups in the US and…

> unlawfully killed trans people

As a Dutch person I was very confused for a minute, but then I remembered there are indeed lawfully killed people in other countries.

(And while writing this, I remembered euthanesia is legal here, but that's not killing in my mind because the person chose it for themselves and the given reason cannot be an external, solvable condition.)

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#167

Post by arrrg »

TheGirondin wrote: post #122
CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not interesting in explaining myself to nationalists. I will, however, say that 7 years of prison can be devastating for anyone but 35 years can totally ruin their life with virtually no chance of recovery. Most people have support systems, but will they still be intact after nearly half the average life span? Regardless of your opinion of what Manning did, the fact that she is no longer in prison means that at l…

>I'm not interesting in explaining myself to nationalists. I'm sorry you don't feel you can defend your beliefs. >Regardless of your opinion of what Manning did, the fact that she is no longer in prison means that at least one more person has a chance at life. Isn't that worth celebrating? This can be said about every criminal. Do you wish for all criminals to be released?

I'm not the grandparent, but yes, a senseless destruction of lives that doesn't serve some extremely important purpose is barbaric and evil.

As such any imprisonment beyond ensuring suitable deterrence (which would certainly be the case with seven years) is plenty.

Rehabilitation has to be the central goal of all and every imprisonment. Sometimes that might not be possible, but even in those cases it has to be attempted.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#168

Post by _jal »

jfabre wrote: post #111
debaserab2 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are getting a little tired of the Seth Rich conspiracy claims with nothing but circumstantial evidence. It's becoming some kind of rallying cry for trump supporters (who still can't seem to drop the hillary conspiracies for some reason) and what's especially annoying about it is people seem to be taking it as de facto truth despite no real evidence to back up the claim. So I don't think this as much ab…

I agree with you, but I could say the exact same thing on the "Russia hacked the election" conspiracy. And yet, if you do a search on HN, people who get down-voted and flagged are those who don't support the theory.

Let's see: one is a transparently ginned-up story in the mold of the Vince Foster nonsense.

The other has and is playing out partly in public, with the man at the center of the controversy going out of his way to confirm some of the suspicions.

I'm certainly not going to claim that HN doesn't have collective biases. But thankfully, one of those is a bias towards looking at reality. Certainly not a perfect one, but in general facts work a lot better here than hot air does.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#169

Post by sctb »

myaccountzz wrote: post #48
gpm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debating whether they are male or female seems rather pointless to me, it's a question of definitions. If they want to be referred to as a she, I don't see that it costs us anything to comply with their desire though... so I do.

So if I told you to address me as a King, you'd do that too?

You've been posting mostly ideological and/or unsubstantive comments, often to the point of outright trolling. We ban accounts for that, so please stop.

Re: Chelsea Manning released from prison

#170

Post by oculusthrift »

rosalinekarr wrote: post #3

This is long overdue. Chelsea will probably be doing interviews soon, and since [she's already been pretty outspoken about internet freedoms][1], she may even bring some much needed attention to issues like net neutrality, government surveillance and the never ending erosion of our online rights. Let's hope the media doesn't tear her apart. [1]: https://twitter.com/xychelsea/status/847264510247190532

unfortunately the fact she is trans will make her an easy target to smear
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