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Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

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Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#301

I hate to be the asshole here but, this is (unusual as it may seem) not ubers fault. I get that the guy didn't like his job there, I probably wouldn't either, but there's this thing called "quiting", that he could've tried instead of suicide. As a software engineer I really doubt he didn't have any other options available. By that I mean I know for a fact he had a ton of other options available. sad story, but his su…

> I hate to be the asshole here but...

This is a solid clue that you should reflect on whether you're about to violate the guidelines:

> Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face-to-face conversation. Avoid gratuitous negativity.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#302
Every time I hear a story about Uber I seriously wonder if the employees and drivers should unionize.

Presuming that even if there was some positive story to come out of Uber and that news editors know negative stories about Uber brings in clicks, when has anything positive regarding them come to light?

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the two situations are comparable. You were a bad engineer in over your heard.

you're in no position to judge and there's a really disgusting kind of cruelty in your comment.

the funny thing is this kind of thinking is actually pervasive among engineers, and it doubles your isolation. You tell that story to folks and way more people than you would think actually blame you for the problem, (after all you wouldn't be put on a Performance Improvement plan without some sort of due process right? wrong), makes you even more unsure of yourself, even more anxious, even more depressed, even more isolated, even more likely to just take your own life.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry to hear that. Have you talked with anyone? Have you explored jumping to a different industry? Anxiety attacks are awful. I hope you can find something better.

I haven't talked with anyone, unfortunately. And I have thought about moving to a different industry but I don't even know where to start with that. Despite my total, and growing dislike, for this industry, it remains the sole thing I identify with (which is also a problem). I do recognize that the first step is talking with someone but...it's a tough first step.

> I do recognize that the first step is talking with someone but...it's a tough first step.

It actually does help to talk through things and therapists are trained to be non-judgmental and supportive. I urge you to try it if things get too tough for you.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's my very happy life with my wife; once I got together with her I finally started understanding how important a supportive partner is. One can't simply tell you "I love you" and not detect you're on the verge of a suicide. What arguments do you have against my points?

I actually misread your first sentence, I thought you were blaming this fully on his wife. Who says his wife wasn't supportive as yours? There's really no argument to be made against someone who believes their spouse can feel and fix all their problems for them.

I think we're not that far off but you seem to generalize a bit.

It's not about being weak or relying on your partner to think or act for you.

There's a huge distance between "being dependent, passive, unable to fix my own problems" and "being on the brink of suicide" however. For me a loving partner should be able to detect that you're struggling. If not, either you are extremely good in hiding your problems (and horribly misguided for doing so), or your spouse lacked perception (or care) for you.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#306

Moderators: This thread has essentially disappeared, along with a great deal of very useful comments, because there are apparently duplicates of it. Never mind that this has more comments than the others. Instead of being near the top of HN, where I believe it deserves to be, it is gone. This is unwarranted, and merits serious consideration of merging the so-called dupe threads. Failure to do this will surely look ra…

If you don't want HN's poorly designed algorithms or dang/sbct's whims to control your discussions/what you see on HN, I strongly encourage you to use http://hckrnews.com/ , where posts don't get disappeared.

Thanks, didn't know about that one.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is hard to describe to someone who never experienced a job that is overwhelmingly and exclusively awful how much of an impact it makes on you. And I am not talking about a job that you don't like or don't enjoy. I mean a job that has zero redeeming qualities and a culture that is incredibly toxic. You feel like a failure at work. You are miserable. And you see an out (quitting) but if you quit (without a job) th…

I am early enough in my career that I would feel utterly uncomfortable doing that. My blog is under my real name. It would be so easy to look at my resume and go oh. That company. Woof. I don't really want my public feelings of that experience tied to me like that. This isn't a startup. This is a non-tech business that has been around for decades. Don't burn bridges and all that. I will add this tidbit... you would l…

I understand. Makes perfect sense.

I think many very pertinent stories and points of view never surface because of the very real threat of retaliation or ostracism - burning bridges, as you say.

I think that people who expose the mistakes, weaknesses, and perhaps even evildoing associated with people and companies are seen in the collective mind as whistleblowers, who appear usually to be regarded - and treated - badly. This is a sad but real tendency of human nature.

The irony is that many whistleblowers do a great public service, and at the very least keep entities honest by exposing their wrongs. If everyone turned aside and pretended not to notice that the emperor had no clothes, we would be in a dark place indeed.

This isn't a criticism, by the way: I suffer from the same misgivings, which war against my instinct and desire to tell the stories of the injustices I've seen firsthand.

I wish I knew the answer.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#308

Please know that if you are feeling hopeless, like you are a failure, and that there is no recovering, there are people who will help you. You are not your job or your accomplishments, you are worth it and there are people who love you and will help you. In the Bay Area, call (415) 781-0500 to talk with someone who can help. http://www.sfsuicide.org/

> You are not your job This. 100% this. While I've been fortunate enough to not be in a position of job stress like this, the moment I realised that who I am is not defined by my job was the moment life (both inside AND outside of work) became so much easier. Edit, to elaborate: take that higher-paying job but less 'prestigious' company because who the fuck cares. Clock out of work on time and refuse consistent unpai…

This sounds like the definition of someone with high self worth, who values themselves.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#309
post #25

This is not unique to Uber. I have worked in toxic environments that depleted and debilitated me to the point that, in two cases, I was psychologically completely incapable of even thinking about finding work for three months after being laid off from one, and quitting the other. It doesn't even take abusive bosses who don't like you, although that just makes it far worse. It simply takes being treated like a robotic…

I also was in a similar situation. Not as bad as the engineer in discussion but, I went through similar situation.

Years ago, I started getting signals that my work was preparing to let me go, like putting me on Performance Enhancement Program, etc etc. The thing is I had not kept up with my skills and so I really couldn't find any work with similar pay I could switch to. I also decided to stay to do better work in order to prove the managers wrong. I wanted to prove the management wrong, that I'm someone worthy of employment. I wanted to prove to them that I am a person, not some disposable tool to be tossed aside. I now know it was a mistake.

The stress at work kept building up in me for weeks. I woke up in middle of nights, and I am someone who sleeps like a brick.

And it hit me. One morning, as I was stuck in a stop-and-go traffic on way to work on freeway, I went over the little section of freeway that allows you a full view of the long lines of cars packing the freeway. This view suddenly caused me panic attack and I began to feel claustrophobic. I felt the urge to take off my socks (and strip off shirt, which I didn't) and open the window (which I did) so that I could relieve the feeling of trapped in the car. I had never felt such sensation before. I believe the issue of claustrophobia went on for about 2 years, as I remember worrying about taking a flight to visit family.

I never never had such issues before.

I think I can understand why the engineer didn't leave for another job. With his experience, he could've have gotten another similar or better job, but I believe he wanted to prove the management wrong. But unfortunately the stress got to him first.

Re: Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress

#310
post #25

This is not unique to Uber. I have worked in toxic environments that depleted and debilitated me to the point that, in two cases, I was psychologically completely incapable of even thinking about finding work for three months after being laid off from one, and quitting the other. It doesn't even take abusive bosses who don't like you, although that just makes it far worse. It simply takes being treated like a robotic…

I agree that most managers aren't very bright. It's like in the movie "idiocracy" except with the added frustration that being intelligent doesn't get you noticed or promoted.
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