Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA • Hacker News Board

Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#151

Post by Freak_NL » Thu, Mar 09, 2017, 12:55 PM UTC

arjie wrote: post #131

m_t wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A generic captcha doesn't use the work done by the user. I'm not the person you're replying to, but I think I can guess what could be their answer.

What would it be? It's not clear to me. Going from throwing away the work to improving Google's image recognition is a Pareto improvement so I'm interested in the justification.

But to me this is not a Pareto improvement (i.e., this is subjective). I consider the bolstering of the hold Google (and Apple, and Amazon, and Microsoft) has over a number of common domains (and in a broader sense our lives) to be undesirable and unethical. So when I correctly teach Google's proprietary image recognition software what a traffic sign, mountain, store front (ugh, these are the worst), or tree is, I am (even in the strict economic sense of a Pareto improvement) harming myself.

Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#152

Post by goodplay » Thu, Mar 09, 2017, 12:57 PM UTC

Klathmon wrote: post #129

goodplay wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither the host or google ask for money in exchange for their services. The profitability of their chosen business model is not my concern. If they want something in return, perhaps they should consider setting up a paywall.

What's going to stop you from just stealing the content from behind the paywall because the profitability of their chosen business model is not your concern?

Their competence in restricting access to the information and preventing its decimation, I suppose.

Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#153

Post by bbarn » Thu, Mar 09, 2017, 12:58 PM UTC

jpatokal wrote: post #111

quentindemetz wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google didn't invent this: Luis von Ahn, a CMU grad student did in 2000. Google acquired it in 2009. https://www.cylab.cmu.edu/partners/success-stories/recaptcha...

The original pre-Google reCAPTCHA was used for digitizing books. Using it to read house numbers for Street View was a Google addition.

The original inventor also went on to found Duolingo, which uses teaching someone a language as a way to translate web pages as a service. I like that model a lot more, as at least you get something in exchange (the language learning)

Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#154

Post by new299 » Thu, Mar 09, 2017, 1:00 PM UTC

macrael wrote: post #4

Google using captchas to get humans to read street addresses captured by street view cars to improve maps results remains one of the most Googly things they've ever done. Genius, lateral, and a little weird.

Right, but it was really just an extension of the reCAPTCHA technology. Originally applied only to books.

reCAPTCHA was a technology acquired by Google. Not developed in house.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReCAPTCHA

Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#155

Post by quickben » Thu, Mar 09, 2017, 1:03 PM UTC

bitmapbrother wrote: post #76

icebraining wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that they're payment enough, no need to feel hypocritical for disliking the captcha.

People that project their paranoia on others are usually running ad, tracking and probably even script blockers.

And people that don't, often have to buy/run antivirus, anti-malware and rootkit scanners/cleaners.

Say, do you run also without a firewall and keep mail and other ports open, just to prove you are less paranoid than the rest?

Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#156

Post by schrodinger » Thu, Mar 09, 2017, 1:03 PM UTC

akerro wrote: post #149

macrael wrote: post #4

Google using captchas to get humans to read street addresses captured by street view cars to improve maps results remains one of the most Googly things they've ever done. Genius, lateral, and a little weird.

Not sure if that's good for us. We're doing work for google for free. Google Translate will replace translators, Google car will replace drivers, Google VR + map will replace city guides. We're giving them knowledge and powers to replace us, for free. Professions will disappear, people will lose jobs, Google will get richer and richer, will not pay me or you for fixing their suggestions in Google Translate or fixing…

You could argue that your payment is access to all of the free services they offer (e.g. Gmail)

Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#157

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 09, 2017, 1:03 PM UTC

akerro wrote: post #149

macrael wrote: post #4

Google using captchas to get humans to read street addresses captured by street view cars to improve maps results remains one of the most Googly things they've ever done. Genius, lateral, and a little weird.

Not sure if that's good for us. We're doing work for google for free. Google Translate will replace translators, Google car will replace drivers, Google VR + map will replace city guides. We're giving them knowledge and powers to replace us, for free. Professions will disappear, people will lose jobs, Google will get richer and richer, will not pay me or you for fixing their suggestions in Google Translate or fixing…

[deleted]

Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#158

Post by juice_bus » Thu, Mar 09, 2017, 1:10 PM UTC

schrodinger wrote: post #156

akerro wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if that's good for us. We're doing work for google for free. Google Translate will replace translators, Google car will replace drivers, Google VR + map will replace city guides. We're giving them knowledge and powers to replace us, for free. Professions will disappear, people will lose jobs, Google will get richer and richer, will not pay me or you for fixing their suggestions in Google Translate or fixing…

You could argue that your payment is access to all of the free services they offer (e.g. Gmail)

Which is also mined for data for targeted advertisement, wouldn't that be the payment for access?

Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#159

Post by wisebit » Thu, Mar 09, 2017, 1:11 PM UTC

"Powering these advances is machine learning and a combination of threat yadda yadda"

Looks like they do little more than just check for a Google cookie [1].

[1]. https://www.blackhat.com/docs/asia-16/materials/asia-16-Siva...

edit: still, it's far better than the previous state of captchas. I'm glad they did this. But it's like for anything to be considered "advanced" or "good" in tech lately, it has to have been powered by "machine learning".

Re: Introducing the Invisible reCAPTCHA

#160

Post by r3bl » Thu, Mar 09, 2017, 1:13 PM UTC

popol12 wrote: post #58

Sir_Substance wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I mean does this mean google is going to keep track of what I would be doing when I visit a site? Oh buddy, I have bad news for you... https://support.google.com/dfp_premium/answer/1716364?hl=en https://www.google.com/analytics/#?modal_active=none https://www.doubleclickbygoogle.com/solutions/measurement/

Wow, I never heard of Pixel Tracking. That sounds super evil. Are there browser plugins to fight back on this one?

They're an even bigger thing in emails. Usually, companies would include a pixel from an external resource and then figure out if you've read the email or not by looking at was that image loaded or not.

IIRC, GitHub does that. If you read the email of some notification, it won't show you that notification in your notifications. The solution is to block external image loading in your email client (I know that Thunderbird has that, and I know that Zoho's email client on Android has that).